Online Dating Rights. Mail Order Brides
PragueVietnamMoscowGuatemala

FOUR REASONS American men seek romance abroad: Prague, Ha Long Bay, Red Square, small villages in Latin America. Somehow meeting a Czech, Vietnamese, Russian or Peruvian/Colombian/Brazilian woman for a date at one of these exotic places is incomparably more exciting than meeting a hometown girl at the local coffeeshop. Opponents of a man's right to meet foreign women online never stop to consider how enjoyable it is to travel/work/live abroad and learn new cultures and languages while seeking a marriage partner.
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Author Topic: The Fallacy Of Mail Order Bride Trafficking  (Read 76874 times)
VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2007, 02:58:58 PM »

Thanks MoscowNights for this document. The reporters who are looking at the site today should be aware that MoscowNights is a woman who is against the IMBRA law and who sees the entire document she just posted as radical feminist propaganda. She didn't post this so you would actually think any of it is credible, although the judges in the 4th Circuit did.

I think that Tahirih tried to get Suzanne Jackson to testify in the European Connections IMBRA case that is currently going on. If this is what she was going to lay on the court, and will try to lay on the appeals court, then we better have someone ready to appear as a similar "expert" to refute this. Here is a quick refutation:

[HUMAN TRAFFICKING ISSUES - MS. SUZANNE JACKSON
Statement of Ms. Suzanne Jackson Associate Professor of Clinical Law George
Washington University Law School Washington, DC Committee on Senate Foreign
Relations...]

First we have to realize that a radical feminist is on the Washington Law School staff which apparently has a DC Committee on Senate Foreign Relations. How much power do these women now have with Republicans and conservative judges?

This issue is first and foremost. RADAR and Glenn Sacks and other Men's Rights Activists had better take note that, if these law school feminists strong arm the court system with this crap, the precedents will be set for at least 20 years that feminist crap will win the day in court...and these other Men's organizations plan to go to court.

[July 13, 2004]

This date, by the way, is a shocker because John Kerry and George Bush were neck on neck back then and Americans were horribly split between right wingers and left wingers. I assumed at the time that the Republicans would defend everything I considered important, but I still left the country two weeks after the above date because I was tired of the fact that 2 out of 3 single women were Kerry enthusiasts.

But, if Senator Brownback was a Republican giving radical feminists the time of day in Washington at that time, I was woefully misinformed.

[Thank you to Senator Brownback and to the rest of the Committee for the opportunity
to testify today.]

Where was she testifying and why did a Republican give a radical feminist the opportunity to say something that I should have been allowed to rebutt if I had only known such "testimony" was even taking place.

[My name is Suzanne Jackson, and I am an Associate Professor of
Clinical Law at George Washington Law School. Before becoming a law professor, I
worked as an attorney here in the District of Columbia, representing immigrants and
refugees seeking to escape abusive relationships.]

What law firm? Arnold & Porter per chance? Working mostly with hispanic immigrants who were illegally in the country per chance? This is how one of the studies on abuse rates got propagated: impoverished aliens from the poor part of town were dealt with...and then the feminists could create a smoke and mirrors effect to attack the immigration that most threatens them: white educated women from Eastern Europe.

[Most of my clients did not speak
much English, and had to overcome many obstacles before they could be free of the
threat of domestic violence. Two of my clients had met their husbands through "mailorder
bride" companies,]

Nice touch insulting your clients with that racist term. Two out of how many? 100? 200? Normal statistical happening. This testimony, so far, is irrelevant.

[and it is because of the particular hardships they endured
within the legal system that I began to research the relationship between the "mailorder
bride" industry and trafficking in women. The legal landscape has, on the
whole, improved significantly since those days]

Offering legal assistance and rights to foreigners in the USA is laudable and overdue, but taking away major rights of American citizens should not be part of the process as we shall see she advocates.

[I will refer to the companies as international matchmaking organizations or IMOs
rather than "mail-order bride" agencies, even though the term IMO inaccurately
conveys gender neutrality and a "match" or some level of equality between the
parties.]

In other words, she would prefer to use the racist term "mail order bride site" because, to her, it is more accurate than "international matchmaking website". Talk about radical feminist dissembly. We are going to want to protest the use of the word "mail order bride" as racist and not allow it in any future Congressional or Judicial hearings.

Notice how she is frothing at the bit to make damn sure that everyone knows that American women don't want to meet foreign men online.

Finally, since when is Congress or the Judiciary supposed to rule on relationships having to be "equal" or not.

This, in July 2004, was a blatant attempt to declare anti-feminism illegal...that if a man wants to marry a woman 20 years younger than he is or a heck of a whole lot poorer than he is...he is a "sex trafficker". We will get to this designation below.

"Nothing could be further from the truth: IMOs exist for the benefit of
their paying customers:"

Traditional anti-capitalist rhetoric from a radical feminist.

[men 1 from wealthy nations, including the United States,
Japan and Germany, who want access to women who, most often, have neither economic
nor social power.]

I am writing a book called "The Wealth Trap" on this very subject.

Yes, it is true that the women of the USA, Japan and Germany are from the three most powerful economies in the world. Suzanne is basically saying that these women have economic power and that is basically true. Conversely, the women of Russia, unless they are from Moscow, might have less economic power temporarily. When a woman has less economic power, odds are she will be less ideological as she would not have had the leisure to get all into Michael Moore and Cindy Sheehan. She might even think that it is a smart idea to ask a rich, older businessman for advice on a career. The US or German woman might, indeed, hate capitalism.

But Suzanne mentions "social power" next to "economic power".

But does Suzanne have social power as an American? How old is she? Apparently, she gets invited to law school parties and she is apparently invited to the Georgetown parties of Congressmen. Does she get to meet the Supreme Court Justices at these parties?

I am having a problem with this "social power" remark because men see "social power" as having to do with how good looking the woman is...as well as how funny and smart and interesting she might be.

Is Suzanne funny and smart and interesting? If so, then she possibly does have social power. But this is not related to her coming from the USA, Germany and Japan. Suzanne needs to face the fact that a Moscow State University freshman possibly has more "social power" than she does as a Washington DC law professor.

Furthermore, GERMAN WOMEN WOULD NEVER AGREE TO A LAW REGULATING GERMAN MEN IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY (TWO HOURS AWAY IN MOST CASES) TO MEET A WOMAN.

German women, because of economic power, do have the "social power" to be bitchy...but the competition is a lot closer to them than it is to Suzanne. I can write a book about this.

[Marketing strategies used by IMOs advertise women as generic to
their ethnicity - all Russian women are X, all Asian women are Y]

Blanket statement...and were people really discussing reasons for regulating the Internet back in 2004?!!!

Didn't we already get a law upheld by the Supreme Court that protects the Internet?

Why is the American legal system built so they can keep coming back for more persecution of the rights that were just upheld recently?

To be continued...
Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2007, 04:08:30 PM »

Continuing with the analysis of the radical feminist Suzanne Jackson of George Washington University Law School:

The "marketing statements" of a dating site are free speech and the antennaes of Republican judges and politicians as well as Democrat judges and politicians need to be whirring when they see someone act like the "marketing statements" of a dating site cry out for regulation.

[and emphasize that the women they offer (women who are in fact hoping to leave
their home countries) will all be "home-oriented" and "traditional" wives.]

How the HELL do know for a FACT that they want to leave? These days, Eastern Europeans want the man to move to THEIR countries. The women mostly want to find a MAN not a country.

And how the HELL did a Republican Senator and federal judges listen to a radical feminist condemn traditional family values rhetoric and agree with the radical feminist on her premise that such marketing talk by a website is bad?

In the court room when Suzanne gets her chance, probably before the staunchly conservative 11th Circuit Appeals Court in the European Connections Case, the European Connections lawyers BETTER HAVE PREPARED THE JUDGES AHEAD OF TIME THAT CONDEMNATION OF TRADITONAL FAMILY VALUES RHETORIC (REGARDLESS OF HOW SAPPY AND SILLY A WEBSITE MAY HAVE BEEN IN THEIR PROSE) IS CLEAR EVIDENCE OF RADICAL LEFT WING FEMINIST IDEOLOGY AND HAS NO PLACE BEING ACCEPTED BY A CONSERVATIVE JUDGE AT ALL: PERIOD.

This is why we really could use a donation of $100,000 to advertise now in the Atlanta Journal Constitution that this kind of talk is not something a Conservative should countenance.

[Some companies guarantee women's availability,]

This statement is entirely untrue or represents a marketing lie by some nitwit (anyone can have a website for $11.98 per month hosting fees). There are laws against false advertising.

This is where an opposing lawyer would have to object: you cannot regulate online dating websites!

[others guarantee marriage within a year of subscribing to their service,]

Did Encounters do this? I think they said "or your money back".

I wouldn't pay big bucks for someone to guarantee that I will be tied down in marriage a year from now. Wink

But for someone who really wants to be married, a money back guarantee is part of the 2 million year old matchmaking industry. GOVERNMENT SHOULD KEEP THEIR PAWS OFF THE MATCHMAKING INDUSTRY

Her sentence makes it clear that Suzanne hates the concept of marriage, which is part of radical feminist ideology.

[one even allows a man to remove a woman from the
website to prevent competition during a courtship: 'Select One, She's Yours,"
promises this company.]

Which company was that? Some joker who never earned a dime from his site? Probably. Most people who dabbled in the online dating industry in the past ten years went out of business. Heck, I even owned such a site but I earned only $50 per month and I could have earned $75 per month just leasing the domain name out to a porn site and shutting down the dating service. Instead, I just shut the whole thing down and 199 women (half of whom were American) never met their mate via my website (but there is one happy couple that resulted from the 2 month operation).

Anyway, the reality of the industry is that the dating sites are immoral in the other direction: THEY NEVER TAKE THE WOMEN'S PROFILES OFF THE WEBSITE: EVEN WHEN I WAS DATING A WOMAN ALREADY TWO YEARS HER PROFILE WAS STILL ON THE DATING SITE AND SHE WAS GETTING TWO PAPER MAILS TO HER HOME ADDRESS EVERY MONTH.

In fact, her profile is still there 10 years later! And it is the same photograph. The profiles NEVER come down.

So much for the nonsense that there is any trend of website owners giving exclusive access to the other members.

IN FACT: IMBRA IS WHAT UNFAIRLY GIVES SOME MEN EXCLUSIVE ACCESS TO WOMEN: I BOUGHT THREE HUNDRED HOME ADDRESSES OF WOMEN BEFORE IMBRA CAME INTO EFFECT. NO MAN CAN NOW BUY THOSE ADDRESSES FROM THE AMERICAN WEBSITE I BOUGHT THEM FROM.

IMBRA was my pimp. Thanks Suzanne, for getting a law passed that stops other American men from meeting these 300 women.  Smiley

[IMOs have been linked to criminal trafficking in several ways[/u]. They can be nothing
more than fronts for criminal trafficking organizations, in which adults and girls
are offered to the public as brides but sold privately into prostitution]

Non-American criminal enterprises can use any cover they want and THIS SHOULD NOT RESULT IN THE REGULATION OF WHAT THE FOREIGN CRIMINALS PRETENDED TO BE. Enough said.

[Police in the United Kingdom found organized criminal gangs from Russia, the former
Soviet Union and the Balkans using the Internet to advertise women for sale to
brothels in Western Europe and also to men as"internet brides."]

This is irrelevant. It is like saying "A Serbian man in Montenegro pretended to be a clown in a travelling circus and raped a 12 year old Bosnian girl...therefore we must regulate travelling circuses in the USA".

[A study by Global
Survival Network (GSN)]

Who the frig are they? Did 3 federal appeals judges listen to this crap about an organization calling itself GSN and just accept these people as "experts" of some sort?

Is this the kind of kangaroo court country the USA has become?

[found that most mail-order bride agencies in Russia have
expanded their activities to include trafficking for prostitution.]

Not true, but let us first discuss the prostitution websites that are pathetic but legal: Condi Rice has been warned by the European Union to but out on trying to make prostitution illegal around the world. Is this the angle where Republicans support regulation of American men in their dating activity?

IF REPUBLICANS WILL GET BEHIND THE IDEA THAT AMERICANS ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE PROSTITUTES OVERSEAS THEY CAN WATCH THE MILITARY VOTE DISAPPEAR  Wink

Whether one agrees with prostitution or not, everyone in the US Congress and judicial system needs to know when a radical feminist is trying to say that PROSTITUTION is what she is condemning, not "trafficking".

FOR A RADICAL FEMINIST, PROSTITUTION IS TRAFFICKING IS PROSTITUTION. There is no difference. So we have to be careful, as the EC case heads toward a very conservative appeals court and Supreme Court...maybe these new justices really believe that the USA, as the world's only superpower, can and should use its legal and economic might to eliminate prostitution around the world.

And, since all relationships between men and women (unless that woman is older than the man such as Suzanne Jackson with her law professor salary) can be argued as being "prostitution"...a court that wants to ban prostitution around the world can and will regulate international dating websites.

The European Connections lawyer needs to set the record straight before any Suzanne Jackson testimony that any use of the word "trafficking" is just another word for "prostitution". If that is what the IMBRA proponents want to ban, THEN WHY DID THEY NOT SAY THAT AMERICAN MEN HAVE TO PROVIDE CRIMINAL BACKGROUND FORMS TO THE PROSTITUTES ON THE PROSTITUTION WEBSITES THAT ARE SEPARATE FROM THE DATING INDUSTRY EVEN IF A FEW RUSSIAN MEN OPERATE SEPARATE WEBSITES IN BOTH INDUSTRIES?

You better believe that this was just an oversight. I GET THE STRONG FEELING THAT THIS IS NOT OVER YET BY A LONG SHOT UNLESS WE NIP THIS IN THE BUD NOW.

I SEE A LAW BANNING AMERICAN MEN FROM USING FOREIGN PROSTITUTES ENTIRELY. We are not talking about a law 5 years ago that said American men could be prosecuted in the USA for having sex with foreign underage prostitutes in their countries. Because nobody questioned the authority of the US government to govern citizens outside its territory, we are going to see Republicans like Brownback working with feminists like Cantwell to make it so an American male can be prosecuted upon his return to the USA for having slept with a foreign adult prostitute.

We know from American history that American men will always fold on the subject of prostution (which is why we have to prepare the field more to make sure that the dating industry, domestic or international, must not be characterized as prostitution).

But it could still destroy the Republican Party in the 2008 Elections with the military vote if the USA is seen as trying to ban prostitution around the world.

So much for the subject of prostitution. Now on to a separate subject:

The core marriage agencies in Russia are run by sincere women who look out for the welfare of everyone. American men do not need to be slandered for using any of these agencies to make friends and meet a possible wife.

[European embassies have reported that a number of matchmaking agencies conceal organized
prostitution rings victimizing newly-arrived Filipina women.]

These are not American agencies and European laws already exist to deal with the issue. Case closed.

Except Suzanne dishonestly implied that American agencies did this and that American agencies need to be regulated along with the innocent men who use them.

Did the US 4th Circuit Appeals Court really buy this crap?
Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2007, 04:46:41 PM »

By the way, I shouldn't have to be the only American who can dissect Suzanne Jackson's radical slander of the dating industry. I cannot fly to Atlanta to be the Plaintiff's "expert" on the International Matchmaking Industry, although as a customer for 14 years, I am the real expert:

 [Asian groups have used
fiancee visas and marriage with a so-called "jockey" (an escort bringing women
across the U.S. border) to bring women into the U.S. for purposes of prostitution;
jockeys have even included U.S. military personnel posted abroad.]

Nice touch of hatred by a radical feminist for the military. But servicemen are often so politically correct that they would not take this as the insult it was meant to be.

In any event, it is irrelevant how foreign criminals cover their deeds. They do not use American-owned dating websites and Americans are already subject to laws that ban bringing women into the USA for prostitution.

You cannot regulate breathing because someone who breathes committed a crime.

[IMOs are almost completely unregulated, advertise minors for marriage, and fail to
screen their male clients for criminal histories.]

Of course online dating websites on are almost completely unregulated and that is the way it will remain in the free world. If the USA does not want to be a member of the free world, I should contact more foreign journalists.

French and German dating websites often consider 16 to be the age of consent to date. Ironically, Russian and Filipina dating sites almost always consider 18 as the minimum age.

France and Germany are first world countries.

NOTE THAT THE EC LAWYER IS GOING TO HAVE TO PREPARE THE FIELD FOR THIS KIND OF RHETORIC SO THE JUDGES ARE IMMUNIZED. MAYBE JUDGE COOPER SAW THROUGH THE RHETORIC LAST SPRING BUT HIS DELAY MAKES ME WONDER AND I KNOW THAT THE APPEALS COURT OR SUPREME COURT WILL BE LISTENING TO SUZANNE JACKSONS GARBAGE:

WE HAVE BEEN WARNED THIS EVENING BY THIS DOCUMENT: SUZANNE JACKSON WILL SAY THIS VERY SAME NONSENSE TO HIGH LEVEL FEDERAL JUDGES IN THE USA. HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET A REBUTTAL ACROSS TO THOSE JUDGES BEFORE SHE SPEAKS?

[IMO practices exacerbate problems with false expectations: they require women to complete long questionnaires asking intrusive personal questions,]

What?? Leaving aside the fact that IMBRA burdens US men with unconstitutional questions, 99% of dating sites include a pathetic sentence saying the woman wants to meet a kind and faithful man and she likes kittens!

In fact, it was MY BUSINESS PLAN 7 YEARS AGO TO PROVIDE A MORE DEPTH INTERVIEW but men basically choose on looks, including myself, so my business plan to ask tons of questions did not work.

BUT HAVING SAID THAT, THE LONG INTERVIEWS WITH ALL THOSE QUESTIONS WERE EXTREMELY PLEASANT. The women loved being interviewed and talking about their favorite books and movies, etc.

[encouraging disclosure by implying or stating that
false answers could lead to cancellation of any ensuing immigration benefits.]

This is "hearsay". I am not a lawyer but I know enough about the law to know that the US federal judges don't need to be adjudicating on hearsay and anecdotes.

[Women are also subjected to medical and background checks, and may assume that
participating men are evaluated with the same level of scrutiny. ]

On what planet are women subject to such checks for a dating website?

ON WHAT PLANET ARE WOMEN SUBJECT TO SUCH CHECKS FOR A DATING WEBSITE?

[Women from other countries often assume that all governmental agencies in the United States - a
country with extraordinary resources and technology - have access to information
held by other agencies, that facts asserted in applications for immigration benefits
would be checked, and that a man who had been convicted of serious violent crimes
would not be permitted to bring a spouse or fiance into the U.S. from abroad.]

THIS IS BLATANT AND MENTALLY SICK RHETORIC: PRETENDING THAT FOREIGN WOMEN TEND TO BELIEVE ANY SUCH THING...ARE THE US COURTS SUPPOSED TO ADOPT RADICAL FEMINIST POSITIONS BECAUSE SOME ARAB WOMEN MIGHT COME TO THE USA BELIEVING THAT AMERICAN MEN AND WOMEN ARE MORE TIGHTLY REGULATED?

ARE WE SUPPOSED TO GO FASCIST BECAUSE SOME MUSLIM WOMEN ASSUME THAT WE OPERATE LIKE THEIR HOME COUNTRIES? Do not assume Russian women expect such control in the USA. There is no such regulation in Russia as everyone remembers the Soviet Union.

[The industry does nothing, however, to screen male customers:]

Not true at all. I screened the hell out of my customers. But online dating websites cannot not be responsible legally for background checks. NOTICE THE RHETORIC THAT MAKES IT SOUND SHOCKING THAT A FASCIST LAW HAS NOT ALREADY BEEN IMPLEMENTED: SHE MENTIONS LATER THAT MOBA 1996 WAS NEVER ENFORCED JUST LIKE IMBRA MUST NEVER BE ENFORCED (IMBRA REPLACES MOBA)

[no detailed questionnaire,]

MUST NOT BE LEGALLY REQUIRED FOR SOCIALIZING WITH OTHERS ON THE INTERNET ESPECIALLY IF THIS REQUIRES IDENTIFYING ONESELF OR PROVING AGE

[no check for a criminal record for spousal or child abuse,]

THIS WOULD REQUIRE POSITIVE IDENTIFICATION AND AGE VERIFICATION FOR USE OF THE INTERNET. THE SUPREME COURT ALREADY RULED AGAINST THIS IN THE COMMUNICATIONS DECENCY ACT AND WHY HAS EUROPEAN CONNECTIONS NOT MENTIONED THIS?

[no formal inquiry as to whether men are already married.]

IF A MAN VOLUNTEERS THAT HE IS MARRIED, MOST AGENCIES WILL TELL HIM TO GET LOST BUT, having said that, THE US GOVERNMENT CANNOT RE-OUTLAW MARITAL INFIDELITY!

IS THIS BROWNBACK'S ANGLE? HE WANTS TO SPLIT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY BY MAKING IT ILLEGAL FOR A MARRIED MAN TO DATE ONLINE?

I UNDERSTAND SUCH LAWS EXIST IN MISSOURI?

DO YOU SEE HOW THE RADICAL FEMINISTS ARE ALLYING WITH THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT ON THE SUBJECT OF BANNING MARITAL INFIDELITY?

NOW DOES EVERYONE SEE WHY THE "CHRISTIANS" ARE NOT HELPING MEN WITH THEIR RIGHTS?

[Until recently, the U.S. government also did not
conduct these inquiries.]

In order to get married, an American man should be allowed the privacy he has had for the past 50 years regardless of whether he is marrying a foreign woman or an American woman.

[An IMO can also be a useful tool of, and sometimes a knowing collaborator with, an
individual man who wishes to obtain control over a woman in order to exploit her. A
U.S. citizen can use isolation, domination, and threats of deportation]

NOW THIS WHOLE SECTION GOES INTO THEORY AND HEARSAY AND ANECDOTES THAT A FEDERAL JUDGE SHOULD KNOW IS HIS CUE TO FALL ASLEEP

[Add to the facts in both scenarios above that the citizen forces a woman to have sex
with other men who pay him for the privilege.]

THE JUDGES SHOULD STILL BE SLEEPING BECAUSE THIS IS IRRELEVANT HEARSAY AND THEORY AND/OR ANECDOTE

[Add to the facts in any scenario that instead of using a fiancee visa to secure a
woman's entry into the U.S., the man marries her abroad and brings her to the U.S.
as his wife. These scenarios, distilled from actual cases,10 all fulfill the
elements of the federal crime of forced labor: domestic labor or sexual services]

FOR RADICAL FEMINISTS LIKE SUZANNE JACKSON MARRIAGE ITSELF IS DOMESTIC LABOR AND SEXUAL SERVICES

[They should also satisfy the elements of criminal sex trafficking, if the required
element of 'commercial sex act" is interpreted on the basis of the statutory
language rather than a myopic intepretation focusing exclusively on brothel-based
prostitution or monetary transactions.]

SO THE FEDERAL JUDGES WILL BE MYOPIC IF THEY DO NOT CONCLUDE THAT DATING AGENCIES ARE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR ANYTHING FORMER MEMBERS DO, in this case for when a man actually wants his wife to cook or clean or have sex with him (commercial sex act for the non-myopic).

[Commercial sex is defined in the Trafficking
Victims Protection Act as "any sex act, on account of which anything of value is
given to or received by any person."]

THAT DOES IT: I CANNOT PAY FOR ANY MORE MEALS WITH AMERICAN WOMEN IN WASHINGTON DC: WE MIGHT GET ARRESTED IF WE HAVE SEX LATER. Cool

[When an IMO sells a young woman for sexual purposes, as in a Web page openly
offering sex with fifteen- to seventeen-year old Thai girls,]

THAT IS NOT THE DEFINITION OF AN IMO!!!!

DID FEDERAL JUDGES FALL FOR THESE 4TH GRADE SCHOOLYARD TACTICS?HuhHuhHuhHuh??

[boasting that a girl could be delivered "anywhere in the world," charging extra to deliver a virgin, and
also offered girls for sale outright - pay $4,000 more, the company promised,"and
then she is like your slave forever."

THERE ARE PLENTY OF LAWS AGAINST SUCH A CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE

THERE IS NO LOGIC HERE ON WHY DATING SITES NEED TO BE REGULATED SIMPLY BECAUSE CRIMINALS OPERATED A WEBSITE SOMEWHERE, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY PRETENDED TO BE A DATING SITE (ALTHOUGH IN THIS CASE IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY DID NOT EVEN PRETEND TO BE A DATING SITE)

YOU CANNOT PUNISH PEOPLE FOR BREATHING SIMPLY BECAUSE SOMEONE WHO BREATHES COMMITS A CRIME

[this is clearly commercial sex
trafficking.]

DUH!

[If both parties to the sale know that the person will be forced or
coerced to have sex, both are sex traffickers.]

DUH! Except you cannot then state that a dating site owner will know whether a man will abuse his new girlfriend or wife.

IF FOREIGN DATING SITES ARE TO BE REGULATED - AMERICAN DOMESTIC DATING SITES MUST BE REGULATED - PLENTY OF AMERICAN WOMEN ARE ABUSED WHO MET A MAN ON MATCH DOT COM

[The formality of a marriage or a supposed engagement to marry should not blind us to the federal crimes of sex
trafficking, forced labor and involuntary servitude: when a citizen threatens to
revoke an application for a green card unless an immigrant submits to sex]

DID FEDERAL JUDGES FALL FOR THIS CHILDISH LINK BETWEEN REAL CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR AND THE THEORY THAT A MARRIED MAN WILL WITHHOLD SOMETHING HIS DOMESTIC OR FOREIGN WIFE WANTS IF, FOR SOME REASON, SHE DECIDES THAT SHE IS NO LONGER ATTRACTED TO HIM?

NOTICE HOW SUZANNE MAKES THE NOT SO SUBTLE IMPLICATION THAT ALL FOREIGN WOMEN WHO MARRY AMERICAN MEN ARE NOT INTERESTED IN ACTUALLY HAVING SEX WITH THEIR HUSBANDS?

NOTICE HOW THE CONCEPT THAT A MAN OFTEN LOSES SEXUAL INTEREST IN HIS WIFE AND THEN CHEATS ON HER...WAS ALREADY ADDRESSED ABOVE?

MEN APPARENTLY NEED TO BE REGULATED FOR NOT WANTING SEX WITH THEIR WIVES AND FOR WANTING SEX

[the valuable consideration of legal residency in the United States fulfills both the
"commercial sex" requirement and the coercion requirement of the criminal sex
trafficking statute. ]

I DO NOT LIKE USING CAPITAL LETTERS AND ODR MEMBERS KNOW I USE THEM VERY RARELY BUT SUZANNE JACKSON OF THE GEORGE WASHINGTON LAW SCHOOL IS OVER THE TOP HERE. AND I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT FEDERAL JUDGES HEARD THIS CRAP IN THE ENCOUNTERS CASE AND DID NOT REGISTER THEIR DISBELIEF IN THE FINAL DECISION (INSTEAD THEY SWALLOWED THE WHOLE LINE OF THOUGHT - I HAVE READ THEIR UNPUBLISHED DECISION).

Americans are the most self-important people in the world, stating that their citizenship is worth it for good women to prostitute themselves over.

[The same applies in the context of sexual exploitation of
domestic workers, migrant workers, sweatshop workers, or any instance where sex is
coerced or forced through threats of deportation,]

SO SUZANNE JACKSON WANTS TO BAN MARRIAGE TO FOREIGNERS ALTOGETHER WITH THIS REASONING ALONG WITH STOPPING ALL RELATIONSHIPS WHERE THE MAN EARNS MORE MONEY THAN THE WOMAN

[So that a person is led to believe that on account of the sex act, the person will receive respite from threats of
deportation.]

THE REASONING HERE ELUDES ME: IF A RELATIONSHIP IS NOT WORKING OUT, THE MAN OWES THE WOMAN A PLANE TICKET HOME AND SOME ALIMONY PAYMENTS DEPENDING ON THE LENGTH OF THE MARRIAGE. IF A WOMAN GIVES UP HER JOB IN KIEV TO FLY TO THE USA ON A FIANCE VISA, THE MAN HAS NO OBLIGATION TO ACTUALLY MARRY HER BUT HE DOES HAVE THE MORAL OBLIGATION TO GIVE HER ENOUGH MONEY TO FIND A NEW JOB IN HER HOME COUNTRY.

THE AMERICAN JUSTICE SYSTEM MUST NOT RECOGNIZE THE RADICAL FEMINIST CRAP THAT RUSSIA OR THE PHILIPPINES ARE SUPPOSEDLY HORRIBLE PLACES TO LIVE IN WHERE THE PROSPECT OF RETURNING IS THE PROSPECT OF CRUEL AND INHUMAN PUNISHMENT

IN FACT, IS THERE A WAY FOR AN AMERICAN CITIZEN TO ASK THE SUPREME COURT TO ISSUE GUIDELINES ALONG THE LINE OF THIS DISCUSSION SO THAT ANY IDIOT JUDGE WILL BE AWARE THAT IT IS NOT A GIVEN THAT SOCALLED DEPORTATION IS A THREAT SO MUCH AS A VALID RESULT OF A RELATIONSHIP NOT WORKING OUT?

IT IS NOT ANYONE'S RESPONSIBILITY BUT THE FOREIGN WOMAN'S IF SHE WANTS TO PUNISH HERSELF BY BEING UNHAPPY IN THE USA AS COMPARED TO HAPPY IN THE WONDERFUL COUNTRY SHE PROBABLY COMES FROM

[The criminal penalties for sex trafficking should be brought to bear
against individuals who use IMOs to extort sex and domestic services from individual
brought into the U.S. through fiancee visas or through marriage.]

BUT HOW DO YOU PROVE THIS? WAIT A SECOND, SHE IS SAYING THAT, ACCORDING TO RADICAL FEMINIST IDEOLOGY, ALL MARRIAGES TO FOREIGNERS INVOLVES THIS SO WE ALL NEED TO HAVE CRIMINAL PENALTIES BROUGHT TO BEAR AGAINST US.

[IMOs also camouflage trafficking indirectly by inflating the number of visa
applicants, which reduces governmental resources to evaluate individuals' requests
for fiancee visas.]

IMOs INFLATE THE NUMBERS FOR THE SAME REASON THAT MATCH DOT COM PRETENDS THEY JUST GOT ONE MILLION NEW MEMBERS IN THE PAST TWENTY FOUR HOURS. It is marketing crap that are already regulated by fair trade laws and Match.com is in a lawsuit now because of the way they lie about their membership. BUT I WOULD PREFER THAT MATCH DOT COM WIN ITS CASE AND THE SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DOMESTIC AND FOREIGN DATING WEBSITES

[Until recenty, U.S. immigration authorities conducted no
investigation of applicants for fiancee or spousal visas, not requiring any
background criminal check, ]

TECHNICALLY, WHILE THE TRO RESTRAINING ORDER WAS IN EFFECT ON IMBRA, THE US GOVERNMENT HAD NO RIGHT TO DELAY 10,000 MARRIAGES IN 2006 AND I CANNOT BELIEVE THAT NOBODY IS SUING FOR DAMAGES AS A RESULT.

WHEN IMBRA IS OVERTURNED THIS MONTH, IT NEEDS TO STAY OVERTURNED AS THE EC LAWYER BATTLES THE KIND OF RHETORIC FROM THIS DOCUMENT THAT MAKES IT SOUND NATURAL THAT A GOVERNMENT SHOULD INVESTIGATE ITS OWN CITIZENS INSTEAD OF THEIR FIANCES.

SUZANNE IS A GREAT RHETORICIAN: SHE MAKES IT SOUND UNCONSCIONABLE THAT IT HAS "ONLY BEEN RECENTLY" THAT THE US GOVERNMENT HAS TREATED MEN WHO DATE FOREIGN WOMEN DIFFERENTLY FROM MEN WHO DATE AMERICAN WOMEN

[not asking whether the petitioner is legally able to
marry, not even checking its own records to see if an applicant previously
petitioned for another person.]

IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS TO INTERVENE IN AN AMERICAN'S PRIVATE LIFE, AND IF I WERE TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE 11th CIRCUIT I WOULD ASK THAT THE FIANCE VISA BE ELIMINATED IN FAVOR OF A TOURIST VISA AT LEAST FOR RUSSIA AND THE UKRAINE AND KAZAHKSTAN. ASSUMING THAT THE FIANCE VISA IS FAIR (WHICH I DO NOT ASSUME) IT WOULD BE PRUDENT FOR THE GOVERNMENT TO SEE IF ANY OTHER WOMAN IS BEING APPLIED FOR SIMULTANEOUSLY. BUT IT IS NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S BUSINESS TO INVOLVE ITSELF IN THE AFFAIRS OF A SERIAL MONOGAMIST  Wink

« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 05:56:04 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2007, 05:56:48 PM »

This is more critiquing of the July 2004 "testimony" of a radical feminist law professor in Washington DC before a Senate committee was it? If so, Men's Rights Groups have got to get their act together and be ready to rebutt this nonsense in real time in front of the same Congressional committees. Someone like me should have stared into Suzanne Jackson's eyes as she left the witness stand and he approached it to slice and dice her arguments as lies, hearsay and radical feminist ideology.

Back in 2004, the Republican Party was still seemingly run by men with balls. If we had known about Bush being willing to sign a law like IMBRA in 2004 instead of 2006, we could have had him defeated (but only if a journalist ran with the issue, which has not happened in our timeline yet).

It is a measure of how anemic the Men's Rights Movement is and how sick the American male Zeitgeist is that a guy like me gets to be the first American male to rebutt this testimony 2.5 years after it occurred.

Here is part 4 of my rebuttal:

[Since the tragedy of September 11 th , the Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration
Services has increased scrutiny of all petitioners and beneficiaries of petitions
for immigration benefits, including petitions for fiance visas and marriage-based
adjustment]

Feminists were not thinking about terrorism in scrutinizing Americans in this regard. Their main objective is stopping the competition and ending all "unequal relationships".

[Senator Cantwell has made several excellent proposals to change the
process for obtaining a fiancee visa, which if enacted and implemented would place
minimal burdens on the IMOs and on the participants in the process, while likely
preventing some serious abuses of the system.]

SHE IS TALKING ABOUT IMBRA HERE! SHE IS SAYING THAT CANTWELL HAS MADE EXCELLENT SUGGESTIONS WHICH IS THE IMBRA LAW: HOW IS IT A MINIMAL BURDEN THAT MY RIGHT TO SAY HELLO TO SOMEONE ON A SATURDAY IS DENIED BECAUSE BACKGROUND CHECKS AND PAPERWORK CAN ONLY ALLOW ME TO SAY HELLO NEXT THURSDAY WHEN I MIGHT BE TEN THOUSAND MILES AWAY FROM A WOMAN?

[But even enacting such a law will accomplish nothing if Congress is not prepared to ensure that the laws are
implemented by the Executive Branch.]

IS THE STATE DEPARTMENT IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH? THE DEPT OF HOMELAND SECURITY? AND AFTER THEM PRESIDENT BUSH IS SUPPOSED TO PUSH FOR ENFORCEMENT OF IMBRA AFTER IT IS PASSED? FUNNY, BUT PRESIDENT BUSH HAS NOT MENTIONED IMBRA SINCE HE SIGNED IT. I WONDER WHY?

THE DHS WAS IMPLEMENTING IMBRA WHEN IT HAD A RESTRAINING ORDER, BUT THE WORST IMPLEMENTERS OF IMBRA WERE THE CUSTOMERS AND IMOs THEMSELVES, WHICH I FIND COWARDLY.

AS YOU WILL SEE BELOW, THE MOBA OF 1996 WAS NEVER ENFORCED AND WE COULD HAVE BEEN ACTING LIKE IMBRA DID NOT EXIST EITHER BUT INSTEAD MAYBE ODR AND OUR PROTESTS ACTUALLY CAUSED THE INDUSTRY TO ENFORCE ITSELF.

MAYBE WE HAVE FAILED AT OUR MISSION HERE AT ODR BECAUSE WE SCARED MEN INTO IMPLEMENTING A LAW WHOSE PREDECESSOR WAS NEVER ENFORCED

[This is not the first piece of legislation
recognizing and attempting to address problems in the IMO industry. So many serious
abuses were noted against "mail- order brides" in the U.S. that Congress in 1996
ordered IMOs to provide information to their "recruits" on their rights under U.S.
laws.)

USE OF ANECDOTES ACHIEVED THIS - THERE WERE NO STUDIES DONE THEN AS THERE ARE NO HONEST STUDIES DONE NOW THAT SHOW ANY ABUSE PROBLEM - IT WAS ACHIEVED ON THE PREJUDICE WHICH IS BASED ON EITHER JINGOISM OR JEALOUSY

[Eight years later, this law is still not implemented or enforced.14 The
comment period for the proposed regulation expired in 1997, yet the June 23, 2004
Federal Register announced that the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking will not be issued
until sometime in December of this year[/b] (Encounters was charged and convicted for supposedly not obiding to the law that had not been  implemented at the time of the trial  nor had it ever been  emplemented since IMBRA replaced  it altogether shortly after the trial. Added by the Moscownights).

BUT THE MOBA WAS FINALLY ENFORCED IN THE KANGAROO COURT TRIAL OF ENCOUNTERS WHICH ALL MEN'S RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS NEED TO TAKE A VERY CLOSE LOOK AT AND NOT IGNORE

[Senator Cantwell's legislation asks the
Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services to complete a study of the IMO
industry and the extent of its compliance with the new requirements within two years
of the legislation's enactment, but if the regulations are not in place to ensure
that Congress1 enactments have the force of law, this study and the other reforms
contemplated, will be meaningless.]

THIS IS A MAJOR THREAT - A BAD LAW MUST NOT BE ENFORCED

I HAVE NO INTENTION OF OBEYING IMBRA: I WILL USE ONLY IMBRA-NON-COMPLIANT WEBSITES AND IF I APPLY FOR A VISA I WILL NOT LIE LIKE I ADVISE OTHERS TO DO BECAUSE I WILL LEAVE THE IMBRA QUESTIONS BLANK AND SUE THE GOVERNMENT IF THEY FAIL TO PROCESS MY VISA WITHOUT MY ANSWERS TO HOW I MET MY FIANCE

[Thank you for the Committee's efforts to combat trafficking and abuses of the
international matchmaking industry, for the invitation to appear before you today,
and for your consideration of my testimony.]

THE ONLY ABUSES ARE THE ONES COMMITTED BY SUZANNE JACKSON IN THIS TESTIMONY AND THE FACT THAT DECENT CITIZENS LIKE MYSELF HAD NO IDEA THAT SUCH BULLSHIT COMMITTEE MEETINGS WERE GOING ON AT THE TIME

I CERTAINLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN OFFERED A CHANCE TO SPEAK BEFORE THE COMMITTEE IF I HAD KNOWN ABOUT THE MEETINGS AND WE SHOULD ALL BE WARNED ABOUT WHEN THE NEXT MEETINGS WILL TAKE PLACE

WE ARE WARNED THAT SUZANNE JACKSON WILL PROBABLY GET TO SPEAK BEFORE THE ELEVENTH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS IN THE EC CASE SOMETIME THIS YEAR

FOREWARNED IS FOREARMED

PLEASE WRITE YOUR OWN CRITIQUES OF SUZANNE JACKSON'S ARGUMENTS
« Last Edit: January 17, 2007, 06:16:48 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
Bobt1991
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« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2007, 07:20:39 AM »

The whole idea that human trafficking is associated with international introduction agencies is so ludicrous that it is laughable.  The fact that these agencies are called "marriage brokers" is so unbelievable to me that I can't believe this is happening in the United States of America!  We need to drive home the point that these introduction services are nothing more than a variant of the personals ads you see in your local newspaper every week!  The only difference is that they introduce singles from various countries to those in America and other countries.  People place their personal profile to be published in a magazine or on a web site, and the reader can respond to those that interest him or her.  Communication ensues through letter, telephone or email and the parties eventually meet, possibly planning a future together.  That's all it is, folks!  This is the dark, sinister thing called "marriage brokering" that became the impetus to the nanny law!  Would somebody please explain to me how this service can function as a "human trafficking" operation?

We spent a half a century and hundreds of billions of dollars fighting a strategic war to liberate half of Europe and half of Asia from a form of government that controls the private lives of individuals.  To this day we impose economic sanctions and restrict U.S. travel to Cuba because of the violations of civil liberty imposed by the Castro government on its own citizens.  Yet, the U.S. government sees fit to restrict our freedom to contact a "friendship seeker" in a foreign "personals ad" column!  We need to send a message to Washington to get government out of the "personals ads" and out of our personal, private lives.
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tristan
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« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2007, 09:18:03 AM »

Bob,

This activity is not connected with sex/human trafficking but the radical feminists that support the law cleverly calculated that if they said it is so connected and referred to dating services as "marriage brokers" they could smear this activity and ensure that most people would instantly condemn it.  After all, they convinced Congress and the mainstream media, didn't they?

Radical feminists have devoted their careers to finding new real and imagined ways that men are abusive.  Then, they can suggest remedies that include federal grants, foundation grants and corporate donations to their causes.

It is a sickness of our society but few people recognize it as such at this point.

If you want to translate your anger into action, let us know.
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Advocacy groups that get taxpayer money for "protecting" foreign women and the thoughtless media call foreign woman a "mail order bride" if she met her husband via internet.  This is American imperialism, it is denigrating, insulting and portrays the women as helpless fools.
sig44
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« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2007, 12:52:46 PM »

http://www.academia.org/lectures/lind1.html.
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Taylor
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2007, 01:59:00 AM »


The basic manner in which human trafficking occurs doesn’t even fit in well with how international introduction agencies work.  The argument doesn’t make any sense.  As far as I can tell, the claim that the international dating agencies are involved in human trafficking is completely unfounded.
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Delphi_Programmer
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« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2007, 06:54:09 PM »

Feminist literature about international dating is filled with words like "arranged" marriages, or claims that dating agencies "facilitate" marriage between clients and foreign women.  This lie is often missed because it's in the opening sentence, and the rest of their rant is based on it.

These claims are, of course, utterly ridiculous!  Someone needs to drill home the message that international dating works the same way the local personals columns do.  People place ads, and people answer ads, and the only thing that is facilitated is the ability to write letters or emails.  The individuals themselves decide what, if any, relationship develops.

I've noticed that feminist reports about this subject seem to repeat the same things over and over throughout the text, underneith their sophisticated jargon and double-speak.  You can read the first paragraph and know what the whole 10-page report says.
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Get government out of the Personals Ads and out of our personal lives.
khankrumthebulgar
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« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2007, 05:16:17 AM »

Feminism cannot be supported except by Lies and propaganda. It is in fact in the US a Lesbian Movement, with a few sell out Straight Women who hate Men. This was vividly pointed out when NOW had its 40th birthday celebration. What was their Agenda? Gay, Lesbian, Bi-Sexual, and Transgendered Rights. Yes thats the real concerns of the majority of Women. Not Child Care, Divorce, Health issues etc. NOW should be called THEN since it is full of aging Boomer Lesbians and Man Haters.

Concerned Women of America is a much larger grass roots group and gets very little media. Except for Fox News. IMBRA and the Mail Order Bride Trafficking is utter rubbish. Less than 200 cases a year? As reported by Carery Roberts on Mensnewsdaily.com today. Again this is a manufactured Crisis and Fraud. But what is most disturbing is that both VAWA and IMBRA passed 100% in the US Senate including the most Conservative Republicans who are bailing on Men, Marriage and the Family. While decrying Family Values.

I consider the GOP (Greedy Oppulent Poluters) a bunch of lying weasels. The Gang Who Cannot Shoot Straight. A bunch of Idiots promoting Slogans with no Spine or Backbone. We are in this mess because Conservative Women have been silent and complicit in supporting their Leftist Sisters in their Man Hating Agenda.

Feminism may be led by Liberals but it is funded by Conservatives and US Corporations. Who buys the Ads on Oprah's Shows? Who did the "Bold Moves" commercial featuring a Dad who is Divorced living in an Apartment meekly thanking his ex wife for letting him spend a day with His Children. Men are reduced to Wage Slaves, Peons. An Attorney who marched with Gloria Steinem now fighting for Men's Rights in Michigan, said "Men are the new Beasts of Burden. I did not march to turn Men into Slaves."

IMBRA signals real desperation on the part of the Femifascists. They know if enough Men bail on US Women. Feminism will implode. They also need to find jobs for all those Women's Studies Grads. So creating a New Artificial crisis helps to create employment. Its a Make work project a Feminist version of the New Deal Works Progress Administration.
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