Online Dating Rights. Mail Order Brides

FOUR REASONS American men seek romance abroad: Prague, Ha Long Bay, Red Square, small villages in Latin America. Somehow meeting a Czech, Vietnamese, Russian or Peruvian/Colombian/Brazilian woman for a date at one of these exotic places is incomparably more exciting than meeting a hometown girl at the local coffeeshop. Opponents of a man's right to meet foreign women online never stop to consider how enjoyable it is to travel/work/live abroad and learn new cultures and languages while seeking a marriage partner.
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Author Topic: Pbs Television Talk Show "debate" On Imbra: Only Women On Panel  (Read 90683 times)
Posts: 16

« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2006, 08:46:06 PM »

No love from Bonnie and friends

frank johnson
Hero Member
Posts: 1073


« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2006, 01:24:16 AM »

What a coven!

I recognize "Moe"reen, "Larry"anne and "Curly"ette, but who are the other 3 stooges?

I imagine these models of feminist pulchritude admire themselves while looking at this photo thinking "We and only we know what is best to stop foreign women from coming we mean to "protect" them from those abusive American men who would dare seek non-feminist nags."

When I look at this photo, I see six good reasons why men should crawl over broken glass in order to meet and marry foreign women!

By the way if their smug poses with arms folded like "look at me, aren't I something?" look familiar, it is because it is the same pose in the photo that Layli loves of herself standing in front of the Capital Building while thinking "Watch out you old men in politics. I'm gonna purge you personally after WE take over!"

Like I always say, these brainwashed robots just can't think for themselves can they?

"Should we wear our klan outfits so people can see our true selves? No, no, let's use the same pose as  our idol, Layli. Hey it works for her! Let's be just like her and we will get lots of easy money too! Yeah! We parrot her lies and made-up facts anyways. Let's get our hair done just like her too! Right girls?"
« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 07:11:54 AM by Frank Johnson » Logged
Hero Member
Posts: 1204

This is a subway in Russia. Poor country?


« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2006, 08:06:47 PM »

Hi Larry,

I love your sense of urgency and please don't lose it. But note that it is a very good excuse for busy executives not to have the time to battle IMBRA full-time. Still, 99.5% of the men who hear about IMBRA and do nothing at all concrete are worth criticizing.

But that wouldn't include Tristan who just took over ODR two weeks ago and is doing an excellent job on several different fronts (of which cleaning up the forum software mess is only one issue).

Much of the progress we are making is behind the scenes. This thread alone has gotten us a very powerful ally that I cannot talk about.

So you have helped get us a powerful ally by participating in this thread.

Note that I consider 1 powerful ally (who may never post) more important than 100 regular Joes who might show up here and say "Hi guys. Great forum. Keep up the good work." and we never hear from them again.

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
Posts: 31

« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2006, 10:16:17 AM »

The panelists on  the PBS program collectively appear to represent an old Soviet Politburo.  This one sided TV program is the perfect example of how modern day radicals are able to force their radical views on a democratic society.  These women (on the panel) embrace the new radical feminism which is an all inclusive theory to solve all problems similar to the Marxist theory. Their (radicalism) views today are every bit as destructive as the Marxism was back a hundred years ago.

What is really apparent though is the apparent selfishness of Megan Beyer who jealously complains, "American men seeking foreign brides have made comments...They don't want  these American women" and the attitude of these American men is "ME ME ME". Then she goes on spewing anecdotal hysteria by suggesting relationships are one sided in favor of the man, "It appears this is a cynical deal.. It doesn't sound like a love match to me."
Ms. Beyer's made these outrageous anecdotal heresy claims in spite of the fact these International marriages are in fact the ideal "love match" enjoying a far lower rate of divorce with  a domestic abuse rates 6 times less than the rate of abuse for the entire US populace.

Megan Beyer suggests that men involved in these relationships are only interested in themselves but Ms. Beyer's words and interpersonal language reveals her outright jealousy towards American men.

Ms. Beyer and the other panel members appear to be personal  tyrants who want to create their own private empires at the expense of the civil liberties of all law abiding Americans.  There is not a seed of truth from any members in the panel; nor is there any empirical evidence suggesting there is a problem with "mail order brides"  with Bonnie Erbe stating " I  haven't looked at any data regarding domestic violence".  So if they haven't looked at any  data evidence why are they suggesting a need for laws laws to regulate International Romance.

(Eleanor Holmes- Norton) insinuates the need to regulate IMB facilitated relationships based upon "anecdotal" evidence. This one sided propaganda program suggests these women would be shocked and angry if someone like myself would  be allowed to participate on a panel discussion in a fair & respectful manner.  Their concern (Of course) is that I would publicly state the truth while suggesting the notions of (their radical) anecdotal evidence  with NO empirical evidence reveals their apparent lack of credibility. The anecdotal evidence (they cited) is something akin to a riddle surrounded by a mystery that appears mysteriously and then disappears and then magically reappears again. Alas the  radical feminists great anecdotal illusion "game" would be exposed and the radicals would not approve of that just like the Comrades in Russia would have disapproved of exposing the truth and their ulterior motive to the public.

Communism and radical feminism (those who embrace IMBRA )appears to be a satanic movement devoted to human degradation and tyranny in the absence of truth and  due legislative and judicial process. Of course, no one would support  ( IMBRA) it if the public knew the truth and their ulterior motive- "to prevent American men from marrying women uninfected by American feminism"which the promoters of IMBRA mistakenly published (in a jealous angry weak moment) a PR web release on July 3, 2004.
Jr. Member
Posts: 88

« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2006, 02:45:56 PM »


Now that I got your attention.... Yesterday when I first looked at this thread I wondered if any of you guys would understand the reasons of what is fueling all of this. Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes-Norton gave us our biggest clue when she said how surprised she was when she learned about how violent we men are who marry "mail order brides". What made her believe this? Could it be that along with this year's statistic of 37,500 women and children entering the country by family based visas that there were 9,500 women and children who accused their American men of abuse? That is allot more than 1%. While we are quoting dated 1999 statistics the feminists have there war machine operating at full speed creating the conditions that give Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes-Norton cause for alarm. That is all these abuse petitions being filed every year at an ever increasing rate. This is what is fueling all of this.  

Instead of fighting for just this issue of dating rights you should be fighting to expose the issue that fuels all of this. That is false abuse charges to get a green card and with it the issues that:

1) American citizens are being accused of abuse in secret by their foreign spouses to the INS
2) They are given no provision to present their side of their story
3) Nor are they asked
4) That under new VAWA rules the INS (USCIS) is forbidden to contact these US citizens
5) Americans without any contact or representation are being labeled as "Abusers" and placed in Federal files for life as such

Can you imagine any court operating like this?

And of course with these conditions in place there will be a dramatic growth in false claims. Just think what it is going to be like when the embassies start handing out the "Abuse-R-Us" pamphlets at the interviews.  

People like Felix come in here looking for a story. Online dating rights with foreign women just doesn't get then worked up enough to champion it. The issue above would. It is our best example of the feminist influence of overturning "equal justice" for United States citizens. It is easy understand once you get all the facts and it is easy to accept that US citizens should be able to present their side of their story.  

We need to fight this like a strategic war not a tactical battle. We need to expose and then crush the conditions that fuel the feminist war machine of this fight. We need to direct media attention to the secret Star Chamber hearings held in Saint Albans Vermont against it's own citizens. All the while to keep fighting the skirmishes over IMBRA. Otherwise I fear the biased statistics that the V.A.W.A. unit in Vermont will provide will overwhelm us.

Jr. Member
Posts: 83


« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2006, 06:19:10 PM »

A basic concern that I have is with false abuse charges.  Based upon the government’s own study on the “mail order bride” industry, the government believes that many of the foreign women who are marrying American men are doing so for citizenship and personal gain.  Love isn’t in the equation. [1]

IMBRA will facilitate false abuse claims.  An American man potentially risks everything by marrying a “mail order bride”.  I don’t think that this situation is by accident.

It may be that women in these “mail order bride” marriages do suffer higher rates of abuse.  The simple fact of the matter is that we don’t know, because there aren’t any reliable statistics on this subject.

Any meaningful government regulation of this industry should protect both the men and the women involved in the process.  Regulation is needed, but not in the form of IMBRA.  IMBRA assumes that all of the abuses in the process are coming from men and the “marriage brokers”.  That simply isn’t correct.  IMBRA should be amended, so that it provides some protections to men who are being taken advantage of.  I do agree with Megan Beyer that some of these foreign women are using American men.

1.   Robert J. Scholes, Ph.D., "The "Mail-Order Bride" Industry and Its Impact on            U.S. Immigration,"
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 06:24:44 PM by NewTaylor » Logged

IMBRA isn't fair:  ?
Posts: 40

« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2006, 08:47:16 PM »

It's men that need to be pritected from the feminists not the other way around. Here are a few thousand horror stories men face when seeking an FW:

 Ok, you fembot bastards here is my response:

The average income of an American men seeking an FW to marry is $80,000, with a degree and also who is very reserved.

I have not yet talked with an FW that wants to move to the usa. The old "they only want citizen" blabber does not apply in most cases. FW would be thrilled if men could live in their country and they encourage them to do so. Most men seeking FW would gladly move from the usa if they could take their jobs and income with them.

Notice the fembots say "not educated" over and over. That is discrimination towards those that do not have a college degree. To be in amazement one had to have a college at Enron. Notice the total disdain and bigotry these women have towards FW. Their deep seeded hatred of FW is glaringly apparent.

The host says she has not researched the topic on the internet but to briefly read that some unknown FW from the Dominican Republic claimed she was raped. The fact is that it is men that face the most danger when looking for the FW and IMBRA heightens that danger. I literally do not have enough room on this page for stories that took me less than 5 seconds to find of men getting scammed.

Here just one link where FW are alleged to have tried to scam men:

Page 471:
Updates 8 May 2006 - Page 1

* Anastasiya (Nastya) - Detchino, Russia
* Anna Terehova - Yoshkar-Ola, Russia
* Darya Kryukova - Kirovsk, Leningrad region, Russia aka Malina and/or Anastisiya Matvienko (Pereslavl-Zaleski, Yaroslavl Region Russia)
* Elena Tanygina - Cheboksary, Russia aka Elena Solovieva and Angelika Fimova
* Lyudmila Chernysheva - Vladimir, Russia

Page 472:
Updates 8 May 2006 - Page 2

* Marianna Bushmakina -Saratov, Russia
* Lyuadmila or Marina Romanova - Makhachkala, Russia
* Tatyana - Sernur, Russia
* Olga Solomina - Ufa, Russia
* Sofiya Kozhinova - Yoshkar-Ola, Russia

Page 473:
Updates 8 May 2006 - Page 3

* Larisa Popova - Tomsk, Russia aka Anatoliy Nykolaevich Pustozerov and Avantix Tour Agency
* Anita Anna - Bryanka (Lugansk region), Russia - Language Universal Guild Association

Page 474:
Updates 23 May 2006

* Aleksandra Liholetova - Omsk, Russia
* Elena Potehina - Moscow, Russia
* Lyudmila Chernysheva - Vladimir, Russia
* Natalya Alekseeva aka Nastasia Chirimisova - Kotlas, Russia
* Oksana Zagaynova - Samara, Russia

Page 475:
Updates 25 May 2006

* Anna Kulygina - Cheboksary, Russia
* Anna Tarsova - Omsk, Russian Federation
* Elena Chernova - Omsk, Russia
* Svetlana Zagainova - Yoshkar Ola/ Cheboksary, Russia
* Oksana Kir/Kirpichnikova - Cheboksary, Russia

Page 476:
Updates 29 May 2006

* Ekaterina Derkach - Samara, Russia
* Elena Nagieva - Cheboksary/ Moscow, Russia
* Larisa Kudryaceva - Vjatskie Poliany, Russia
* Tatiana Borichevskaia - Sanchursk, Russia
* Valentina Dudina - Saratov, Russia

Page 477:
Updates 1 June 2006

* Natalia Markina - Achair Russia - 1
* Natalia Markina - Achair, Russia - 2
* Polina Dubrovina - Elabuga, Russia
* Kristina Polushina - Kazan, Russia
* Sofiya Kozhinova - Yoshkar-Ola, Russia

Page 478:
Updates 4 June 2006

* Alexandra Romashova - Toguchin/Novosibirskaya, Russia
* Irina Medvedeva - Samara, Russia
* Ekaterina Kochkaryova - Gatchina/St. Petersburg/Moscow, Russia
* Marianna Aptysheva - Perm, Russia
* Anastasiya Vinogradova, Orenburg Russia
* Anastasiya Vinogradova, Orenburg Russia

Page 479:
Updates 9 June 2006

* Yulia Kamenschikowa or Elena Lupanowa/Yuzhnyy and Barnaul/Siberia, Russian Federation
* Svetlana Kovaleva - Orlov, Russia

Page 480:
Updates 24 June 2006

* Yulia Camenschikowa - Yuzhnyy, Russia
* Lyudmila Butenko - Smolenka, Russia
* Natalya Kolchino - Norilsk, Russia
* Tatyana (Tanya) Zaneeva (Ivanovo Russia)
* Valentina Volkova - Kozmodemjansk, Russia

Page 481:
Updates 10 July 2006

* Nataliya Volkova (Balakova, Russia)
* Polina Dubrovina (Elabuga, Russia)
* Olga Komarova.(Samara, Russia)
* Volha (Voly) Zaletka (Minsk, Belarus)
* Tatyana Volkova (Orlov, Russia)
* Sofya Efimova (Tomsk, Russia)

Page 482:
Updates 17 July 2006

* Antonida Jandukova (Borisoglebsk, Russia)
* Natalia Mochalova (Cheboksary, Russia)
* Natalia Protasova (Irkutsk, Russia)
* Natalia Konarskaya (Tomsk, Russia)

Page 483:
Updates 24 July 2006

* Natasha Derzhavina (CHUVASH REPUBLIC, Russia)

Page 484:
Updates 8 August 2006 - Page 1

* Anastasiya Koneva ( Archangelsk, Russia)
* Elena Istutova (Yoshkar-ola, Russia)
* Marina Botchkareva (Biysk, Russia)
* Mariya Ivanova (Orlov, Russia)

Page 485:
Updates 8 August 2006 - Page 2

* Natalia Protasova (Moscow, Russia)
* Tatjana Oleinikowa ( Moscow, Russia)

Page 486:
Updates 22 August 2006 - Page 1

* Anna Pyatova (Samara, Russian Federation)
* Elena Devchonka (Saransk Russia)
* Elena Levanova (Revda, Sverdlovskaya obl, Russia)
* Elena Uvarova (Irkutsk Russia)

Page 487:
Updates 22 August 2006 - Page 2

* Lyudmila Matveeva (Cheboksary, Russia)
* Marina Miheeva (Novokuznetsk, Russia) also Konovalov Oleg and Captain Vrungel travel agency
* Nadejda Sidikova (Khabarovsk Russia)
* Olga (Olya) Moskvina Yekaterinburg and Moscow, Russia
* Yulia Sazonova (Ryazan, Russia)

Page 488:
Updates 29 August 2006

* Iesmina Giosu (Satu Mare, Romania)
* Tatyana Antipina (Samara, Russia)

Page 489:
Updates 5 September 2006

* Elena Kuznecova (Saransk, Russia)
* Irina Pletnyova aka Irina Kisljachenko (Seversk, Tomskaya area, Russia)
* Natalia Chourbakova (Moscow, Russia)
* Liliya Syltanova (Baykalsk, Siberia)

Page 490:
Updates 15 September 2006

* Olga Pageneeva (Kirov, Russia)
* Alla Fedotova (Gatchina, Russia)
* Evgeniya Russia (Ivanovo, Russia) and Easy Travel Agency
* NATALIA SHULEPOVA ( Yoshkar-Ola, Russia)
* Lana, Milandriya (Inza, Russia)

Page 491:
Updates 16 September 2006


Lyudmila Shirokova, Lyuda Shirokova (Perm, Russia)
* Larisa Laponova (St. Petersburg, Russia)
* Mariya Ivanova (Astrakhan, Russia)

Page 492:
Updates 22 September 2006


Anna ILCHENKO (New Sokolovo, Russia)

Ekaterina Romanenko (Tver, Russia)

Ksenia Chercazianouva (Cheremkhovo, Moscow, Russia)

Page 493:
Updates 2 October 2006 - PAGE 1


Ekaterina Romanova (Bryansk, Russia)

Elena (Yaroslavl, Russia)

Lyudmilla G. aka Sofiya Kozhinova (Yoshkar-Ola, Russia)

Natalia Sokolowa (Yakutsk - Moscow Russia)

Page 494:
Updates 2 October 2006 - PAGE 2


Olga Leis (Novosibirsk Russia)

Ksenya Charcazianova (Cheremkhovo, Russia)

Valentina Volkova (Kozmodemjansk Russia)

Yuliya Kamaeva (Cheboksary Russia)

Page 495:
Updates 10 October 2006


Elena Bahtina (SAMARA, RUSSIA)

Katya Or Ekaterina Petrova (Kirov, Russia)

Tatyana Sychyova (Yoshkar-Ola, Russia)

Page 496:
Updates 19 October 2006


Irina (Cheboksary, Russia)

Yulia and Selva (Nizhnekamsk, Russia)

Page 497:
Updates 3 November 2006

* Elena Kozlova (Krasnodar, Russia)
* Evgeniya Syshencova (Naberezhnye Chelny, Russia)
* Katya Petrova (Kirov, Russia)
* Lyubow Andrevna Koroleva (Cheboksary, Russia)

Page 498:
Updates 4 November 2006

* Nastya Shabashova (Vladimir Russia)

Page 499:
Updates 18 November 2006

* Anastasiya (Jaransk, Russia)

Irina Kondratieva (Yasniy, Russian Federation)

Irina Mamaeva (Kostroma, RUSSIA)

Mariya Ivanova (Orlov, Russia) AKA Natasha Natalia (Yaransk, Russia)

Page 500:
Updates 18 November 2006


Mariya Pustovalova (Yoshkar-Ola, Russia)

Nadezhda Travina (Cheboksary, Russia)

Page 501:
Updates 13 December 2006


Galina Smirnova and Ivan Nikitin (Saratov, Russia)

Tatyana Bezborodova (Yaransk, Russia)

Vasilya Salihova (Osa City, Russia)

Vika Volinskaya (Ryazan, Russia)


The sex trade is not controlled by men in the usa. It is controlled by the mafia in whatever country the woman is from. A man seeking FW for marraige does not want a prostitute as he can just work in an american whoreporation to find those.

They kept on saying men want subservient women which is not true. The average man seeking an FW wants a FW who is ladylike and relaxed. They want an FW that works with her man instead of against him. This group of AW reminded my of a bunch of hyenas. I will continue to vote against funding for PBS.

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President Putin ordered to arrest Internet scam artists after receiving letter from Australian man

Anna Lazareva, whose photos were used by the gang under dozens different aliases
In May 2001 Terry, an Australian man scammed by a group of internet scammers, sent his story to Russian Bride Cyber Guide's Black List. We published his report.

But unlike many other men, Terry not only sent a warning to others but wanted to do more and so continued tracking down the criminals determined to have them prosecuted. He launched a webpage with information on the scammers to collect reports from other victims. In the next step he found and contacted the Russian Embassy in Australia, numerous Russian based newspapers and then various Russian government agencies, including the much feared Russian Tax Police, sending them the scam details. Later he found the official website for Russian government and used it to sent a letter to President Putin about these offenders, not expecting his complaint to ever reach the eyes of the President himself. In his letter to the President Terry implied that it was a matter of Russian honor that these criminals be brought to justice, as they were bringing great discredit on their people and country.

Unbelievably, the letter got into the right hands, the President himself , who ordered the criminals be tracked down.

Some months later Terry was surprised to receive Emails from the Russian Police and Interpol asking for details of the scam. Later he was contacted by and questioned by the State and Federal Police in Australia on behalf of Russian investigators, soon the criminals were caught. Terry was one of only 10 men who came forward to testify in the criminal case but it was his letter that made President Putin order an investigation. Terry did not know that it was his letter to the President that initiated the investigation until he was contacted and informed of it by a journalist for Sydney's Sunday Herald, who had received the details from Moscow after the criminals had been arrested.

Text of the letter Terry sent to President Putin

The scammer gang Terry encountered was started by a husband and a wife, Yuri and Anna Lazarev, Russian citizens. They used photos of Anna to lure men, and female acquaintances to collect wire transfers. At first they used the real name of the wife (Anna Lazareva) to collect money but then moved into using names of other females to receive wire transfers from all over the world. Other aliases were Alfia Magdeeva, Marina Chumachenko, Vasilisa Schelkonogova, Anna Porfireva, Olga Trophimova, and many others.

34-year-old Yuri Lazarev made a set of photos of his wife Anna and was posting them at large Internet personals. Scammers then initiated correspondence with men pretending to be a single Russian girl looking for a serious relationship. The plot was a 27-year old virgin who wanted to wait until she finds the right man. She would soon fall in love with her correspondent and ask him for money for visa and tickets to join the man in his country. After receiving money, the gang would stop correspondence.

Later Lazarev made photos of other women and used them to post on the Internet. The women were unaware their photos were used in a scam.

The gang was contacting hundreds men a day and used major personals websites with their huge databases to solicit correspondence with the male members.

It is believed that the gang, based in Chelyabinsk, Russia, were some of the first dating scammers that used Internet personals to rip off men seeking serious relationship and marriage with Russian women.
According to Chelyabinsk police, the group scammed more than 1,500 men and extorted more than 1,5 million US Dollars from them, in the period of 2000-2002. The spokesperson for Chelyabinsk police said if it was not for Terry's letter to the President Putin, they could continue scamming men through Internet personals.

Recently the story hit pages of newspapers all over the world, starting from the publication in Sydney's Herald.

A telephone interview with Terry was published in the Sunday issue along with details they received from Moscow, and initiated another wave of talks about Internet marriage scams in Australia.

But according to Terry, that was not the whole story.

One could expect that after being scammed Terry would give up on Internet dating and particularly Russian women; quite the opposite. He continued his search and is currently involved with a Ukrainian girl. Terry continues to have a very high opinion of Russian women and Russians in general, and opposes often applied media stereotypes of Russian women on the Internet, being only gold-diggers and scammers etc.

This is what Terry said in his communication with Russian Brides Cyber Guide, after his unbelievable story came public:

"I have commented on similar print stories in the past. I have asked them why they only enjoy labeling and stereotyping Russian and Filipino women on the Internet as all being "mail order brides", immigration scammers, prostitutes, likely slaves, gold diggers or only escaping poverty etc - and not all the Australian women who do the same thing. I have asked them why they always portray any Australian men who are interested in them as being lonely social misfits, unattractive to Australian women, simple, pitiful or violent towards women etc. I ask them, have Australian women never married for reasons other than love? Unfortunately and not unexpectedly they don't bother to reply or change their populist attitude in subsequent stories.

"In the past, I have written to the Prime Minister, Immigration Minister and various talk back radio programs in Sydney, recommending that we encourage increased migration from Russia and Ukraine as it my opinion that your people assimilate very easily and become highly productive, decent, loyal assets to this country, unlike many migrants from other areas. I complained that it seems we only want people from there if they are athletes or coaches who can win us a few extra gold medals at the Olympics.

"In the year 2001-2002 Australia unfortunately only accepted 187 migrants of all classes from those two countries, - despite the fact that they have a combined, and highly educated, population exceeding 200 million.

"Those figures for the 2001 - 2002 are particularly annoying especially when one compares them with some other countries. In this same year we accepted 1,100 more migrants from Lebanon, ( of 6,000 from the Middle East ) which has a population of only 3.5 million, despite the fact that that community here having a 25% unemployment rate and a not small minority being very troublesome, particularly in Sydney, with clearly little interest in assimilating. I wrote several times to Ministers regarding this disparity, I have not been able to get the immigration figures for the 2002 - 2003 period to compare, I hope they are much better than the previous year. We certainly need better quality migrants than many of the ones we are currently accepting.

"Until today I was unaware that your site is based in Australia. I posted a warning on your site a few years ago regarding a Russian scammer I encountered. I actually went to a bit of trouble and took my complaint to the very top and there has been a recent development in that story. It looks like I am going to have the last laugh.

"When I said I went right to the top with a complaint about a Russian scammer, that is exactly what I did, the very top.

"I actually told the very excited Herald journalist, when he suddenly rang me out of the blue late last week, that I really didn't want the story published and I especially didn't want my name or parent's address mentioned, the Herald ignored both these wishes. I told him that in the past the Australian media have almost always taken great delight in applying sweeping, insulting and very unfair stereotypes and labels to people in similar stories.

"As I wouldn't agree to an interview (or photo) prior, the Herald article only told half the story. In my last Email to these criminals I told them that "I would get them using the same tool they had used to dirtily get me and other men." If nothing else I thought I might be able to get them for Tax fraud, so I also contacted the Russian Tax Police by Email. I actually did some of the detective work myself, on the Internet, regarding how many other victims there might be and how much money might be involved. These details I then had Emailed to the Russian Police who had by then contacted me via Email. I found these criminals had many aliases so I sent lists of them to the Moscow Embassies of many countries to try to make sure they could not get visas to travel internationally with on their stolen money. I posted warnings on various web sites including leaving the Email address of the Russian Tax Police, and general Police then investigating the matter, so other victims could get involved.

"As a result of this story, radio and TV stations now want to talk to me, which I am not keen on."
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The women on the video do not get that foreign men do like want to date american women as AW are seen as the worst of the worst. AW have no value while AM are highly valuable. They imply over and over that all men with FW are sex trafficors. Not true. Why would a man with a good job or retired want to get in the sex trafficking business? The fact is they don't. It's the majority of men that need to be protected from FW scammers and not the other way around. The worst scammers though are AW!
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Andrei Nesterov
Moscow, Russia
July 5, 2005

Russian city of Barnaul, situated in southern Siberia, the National News Agency reported.

Hundreds of girls of different professions communicate with foreigners (predominantly American men) online on a daily basis. Ladies of different occupations — reporters and students, nurses and real estate agents — pose as “Cinderellas” in exchange for money they receive from kind-hearted men.

The girls give painful descriptions of their “hardships” and then ask for money. According to the National News Agency, foreign men are especially sensitive to such girls’ legends as “My parents are unemployed, and we are starving,” “I am a victim of domestic violence,” “My mother is a drunkard,” “My house burned down,” and “Chechens kidnapped my brother and demand a ransom.”

The National News Agency wrote that the girls conduct meetings once a week and compete with one another in terms of the amount of money raised from men. At their weekly meetings, the girls read each other the most touching passages from their correspondence, and together brainstorm new tales for their future letters.

The girls involve their friends in this fraud scheme by selling them the addresses of the relevant Web sites, along with recommendations on how to write the letters that will touch foreigners deeply and not raise suspicions. When newcomers begin receiving money from abroad, they are required to share 20 percent of their online earnings with the girls who got them in the business. If she doesn’t want to share the money, her senior “fellow-businessmen” write to the foreign men, calling her a crook. After this, foreigners stop sending her money.

One of the girls, 25-year-old Svetlana says that at one point of her life she realized she could profit from the myths foreigners have about Russia. “They think that Russia is all about criminals and beggars.” Svetlana makes the men feel sorry for the beautiful girl living under such “gloomy” circumstances. The feeling of sorrow is transformed into remittances for Svetlana.

Svetlana is not conscience-stricken about this. On the contrary, she claims she is doing a good thing for foreign men by teaching them to be kind, considerate and human. “We make them feel confident, we say they are the best. In this way, they get rid of their inferiority complex. I should have charged them more for doing this job!”

Not only ladies do such things in Russia, but also some men. A man from Chelyabinsk, an engineer by profession, posed as a girl for dozens of foreign men with whom he had correspondence for five years. When their correspondence turned into “friendship,” the “girl” said she wanted to visit the foreigner, but was short of money. The foreign man sent the money (the swindler hired female students to receive the money), and then the correspondence was stopped. Most men who were cheated, have reconciled themselves to this fact, but one Australian appealed to President Putin’s administration. The authorities initiated a police investigation, and the swindler was detected and sentenced. However, the verdict for him was not that strict — one year of imprisonment. The man was released in the courtroom as he had already spent one year in prison during the investigation. He had managed to make $100,000 in five years.

However, ladies are more inclined to start correspondence with foreigners for shady purposes. The motive for such conduct is described very well in’s questions and answers section (
MythsAndTruth.html). A comment from June 2002 answers the question of whether “Russian girls are quite different from others.” The author says, “Yes, they seem to be, if you mean being different from women in Europe or in the U.S. … They seem to be planning their life less than Western people, but nevertheless are very pragmatic. Many foreigners I talked to say that Russian women want to live ‘here and now’ rather than planning something long-term. However, this ‘here and now’ should be good quality too, so that’s where they are pragmatic.”

Luckily for foreign men, they have some tools to safeguard themselves from some “overly pragmatic” girls. One such tool is a blacklist of Russian women at Russian Brides Cyber Guide’s Web site ( It is made by the men who were cheated at some point of their search for a partner. As a rule, girls ask for money for the trip to visit men and start being together. The unlucky men post on the blacklist the names and photos of the ladies with bad reputations, and some of the letters.

If we analyze the letters of the girls from the viewpoint of logic and skepticism, it is hard to believe in the feelings the girls try to express. If the lady does not love the man, it can be easily seen. Some letters remind one of business correspondence more than romantic exchanges. “Dear Himanshu, Write to me the a phone number and I shall call you tomorrow in 5 p.m. Moscow time. I hope it it will be convenient for you. As I can send you a copy of my passport that your doubts have ended. I looked the approximate prices for air tickets for the current month. On the average cost — 1050 $. Inform me if this sum is a problem. I think that the most simple and reliable way to send money is to put them on the account of a plastic card. Unfortunately I have no any plastic cards. But my girlfriend has a card Visa. You can put money for it.” Then account information is given. “Write to me soon and I shall call to you tomorrow. I love you your ELENA.”

However, men are trapped when they forget about precautions and allow feelings to speak for themselves. “She is building a love affair and you are the king. She is beautiful, and if you don’t fall in love with her, you don’t have a pulse,” wrote one of the cheated men bitterly. “I am 46 year old single parent who was scammed by a supposedly 32 year old Russian beauty. She contacted me through Yahoo Personals and three other Russian women have also. She asks for $600.00 for visa, travel to Moscow to embassy, and hotel and food. She breaks it down saying so much for this and so much for that. Then she says it takes about 11 days to wait for visa and asks for $150.00 more. Now the first $150.00 that was included in the original $600.00 was for 4 days hotel stay. Then when she asked for another $150.00 so she could stay in hotel until she got her visa, I knew those figures didn’t work out … at all.”

“If something seems to good to be true, it probably is,” summed up the man his misfortunes.

Surprisingly, some men can be misled even by quite primitive letter samples copied by many girls word for word and sent in dozens, such as this one: “Possible, you can ask me, why I didn’t find a Russian man? I will be very serious, I will answer to you, that I had a boyfriend from Russia from my city, I loved him very much, but he has thrown me in last time. He found another girl, as I have understood. Also I have seen that he liked to drink an alcohol very-very much, as many men in Russia do it, may be you know about it. I don’t like this when men like to drink so much as my last boyfriend did it! I am non-drinking and non-smoking girl! Simply, I don’t have harmful habits!”

In reality, an online fraud business does not teach men to express their best feelings, but it may kill the good in a person who faced this scam and experienced some damage from it. It is hard to estimate the percentage of scammers among Russian women who correspondent with foreign men, it can be only a small fraction of all women, but this spoils the reputation of all Russian ladies (despite the fact that there are many romantic and kind-hearted persons among them, and also many those, some who suffer and need real help).

As for foreign men, they should learn how to distinguish real feelings from acting. For instance, the lady loving you will be ready to invite you to her country, instead of requesting money for her trip to your country. Also, you had better quit some myths about Russia, such as that poverty here is total and every person can afford nothing in her life. There were examples when American men sent money to female employees of oil companies or to a lawyer who claimed that she earned $100 per month. This can hardly happen in real life, even in Russia where the average salary reached 6,577 rubles in 2004, which is equivalent to $235.
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Well, my repeated calls, letters, emails and faxes continue to be ignored by the police, ministers and Putin himself. Here's why. The victim must file a complaint himself in the girl's city. Otherwise, no case can be opened against her. So, guys, if you lose money, it's gone forever. (But there might be some light on the horizon. Find her real city and tell me.)

Two Russian Students Get Prison Terms for Internet Marriage Fraud (Oct 30, 06)

Two students from the Russian city of Yekaterinburg have been jailed for committing matrimonial fraud with foreigners over the Internet, the Interfax news agency reported on Monday.
One of the convicts, the 28-year-old woman, had sent out her pictures to a number of international matrimonial agencies. After exchanging letters with several men from the United States, Canada and Great Britain the girl asked potential fiances to send her money so she could travel to their countries and meet them in person. Upon receiving the donations which amounted up to $3,000, the girl broke the correspondence.
The court sentenced both to prison terms in a minimum-security correctional labor facility. The girl was sentenced to 5 years and her partner got a 5.5 year prison term.

Arrests in Yoshkar-Ola

More than a hundred people were detained in the course of a special police operation, which had been held on September 13, 2006 by the Federal Security Service Department of Mari El. The operation was aimed at capturing the Internet scammers who posted introduction profiles on different sites, portraying themselves as women who wanted to get married to foreigners. In those profiles they used other people's photos illegally. Such Mari "fiancees" regularly tapped money from their men, motivating this with the necessity to learn English or paying for the driving lessons.
According to the special services, this criminal business was built on the following scheme. The organizers rented apartments in the quietest districts of Yoshkar-Ola, turned them into small offices, equipping them with satellite Internet access and 7 or 10 computers. The role of "fiancees" corresponding with the foreigners were mostly played by the students, who got 10 or 15% of the amount they managed to tap form the clients.
In the result of the operation, the Federal Security Service Departement discovered 10 apartments, also arrested 8 people suspected as leaders of organized crime group. They are now placed in the detention jail. Large amounts of money were seized.
The case in fraud was brought up in accord with clause 159 on the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. The investigation is being held.

Canadian Helps Bust Bride Scam
March 5, 2005

A Canadian man in love with an imaginary Russian woman has helped Yekaterinburg police arrest a couple behind an Internet scam that cheated love-struck foreigners out of thousands of dollars.
The Canadian citizen became worried about the bride-to-be he had met through the web site after she wrote to say that all the money he had sent her had been stolen by the Russian mafia, Yekaterinburg police said.
In fact, the bride was nothing but the criminal imagination of a local couple, police spokesman Valery Gorelikh said by telephone Thursday. The couple, which he refused to identify, ran a web site called Russian Girls that had consisted entirely of photos of nonexistent would-be brides.
The gullible would-be fiancees were scammed out of money through letters asking for money from the fake women, as well as by a section on the web site where the men could buy imaginary gifts for the imaginary women.
On hearing the news about the voracious mafia, the Canadian, whom Gorelikh also refused to identify, flew out to Russia to help his would-be bride. He contacted the British consulate in Yekaterinburg, who immediately sent him to the police. The police traced the couple when they continued to write letters to the Canadian.
Gorelikh said the couple would be charged with fraud under Article 159 of the Criminal Code, which carries a maximum sentence of 10 years in jail.
Complaints about fraudulent Russian bride web sites are common. The U.S. Embassy said last year that it was getting up to 10 calls per day from men who had been duped.
The embassy directs the men to (not Jim's), a web site that explains the various scams.
Another web site, (not Jim's, either), has a list 15 pages long of women suspected of having scammed foreign men, and offers a paid service for men to check out the person they think they are communicating with.
Despite the rise in cases, there have been very few convictions.

American Scammer Gets 5 Years!
June 24, 2004

A San Bernardino County man was sentenced to five years in federal prison yesterday for cheating men out of more than $1 million in a Russian bride scam.
The sentence was imposed from an April plea bargain in which Robert McCoy, 40, of Rancho Cucamonga admitted defrauding more than 250 men and agreed to pay back his victims $737,521. Prosecutors dropped other charges. Investigators positively identified 352 victims, but there may be more, said San Diego-based federal prosecutor Richard Cheng.
Anna Grountovaia, 32, McCoy's wife and the mother of his 2-year-old daughter, was sentenced to three years probation after having served 11 months in jail. Grountovaia, a Russian who met McCoy through the Internet before moving into his home, said she posed as a prospective bride in telephone calls with some of the victims, including several San Diego men. She pleaded guilty to fraud and may be deported. She met him after the scam was already under way and didn't play a big part in the scam, filling in when he needed a woman with a Russian accent, her lawyer said.
Most of the victims spoke with women in Russia, lawyer Timothy Scott said in court papers.
McCoy is a drug-addicted felon who sports gang tattoos and has earlier convictions on assault, kidnapping and weapons charges, according to court papers.
In court filings, prosecutor Cheng detailed the scheme this way:
McCoy met his victims through personal ads he placed or answered on Web sites including America Online and each case, he wrote e-mails posing as a Russian woman seeking love and sent pictures of a pretty model.Eventually, a visit would be arranged, and the victim was told a Russian dating service needed about $1,800 to pay for a visa and plane tickets. On the day the victim was expecting the woman to arrive, McCoy would write as an official from the fictitious dating service and said there was a problem: A new regulation required the woman to carry $1,500 cash to enter the United States.The service would lend her $500, but the victim needed to wire an additional $1,000.The men learned they were taken days later, when their e-mails were ignored or bounced back because the accounts were closed.
The FBI began investigating the scam after a Baltimore man told a London newspaper about the scheme.
McCoy regrets what he did and plans to use his prison time to get off drugs, said his lawyer, Arthur Greenspan, who blamed the drug addiction as a big reason for McCoy's behavior.
A Web site on Russian scams tells prospective suitors to beware any woman who asks for money after an online meeting.

Conned Australian fights back, with a president's help
January 4, 2004

Russian President Vladimir Putin has ordered the arrest of two alleged marriage agency fraudsters after a Sydney man wrote to him, saying he had been conned by a sexy young Russian brunette offering marriage over the internet.
Terry McCarthy, from Epping, was so outraged after allegedly being ripped off that he wrote directly to Mr Putin, declaring it was a matter of "Russian honour" that she be brought to justice. So touched was the Kremlin leader by the carefully crafted letter, he ordered police to track down the criminals, regardless of time or cost.
Investigations later revealed that the woman, part of a gang run by her Russian husband, had allegedly extracted $US1.5 million ($2 million) from as many as 1500 foreign men.
(Jim's comment - 1.5 MILLION dollars!!! From 1500 men!!!!!)
Not only have the couple since been caught, they face between five and 10 years in prison if convicted on all charges. Moscow police sources have confirmed that, on the basis of Mr McCarthy's letter, Mr Putin personally ordered them to find the woman and her associates.
A spokesman said: "Had it not been for Mr McCarthy contacting the President, there is no doubt they would have ripped off many more foreign lonely heart men who are blinded by sexy internet pictures."
When Mr McCarthy, 48, learned of his letter's impact, he said: "I can't believe it. When I wrote that letter, there was no way I ever imagined it would actually arrive on the President's desk . . . or that he would see it.
"I didn't do what I did for any glory. I wrote a lot of letters to a lot of people . . . it was a way of getting what had happened off my chest."

In 2000, Mr McCarthy searched internet photos and profiles for a possible Russian love match. A young, seductive brunette responded. They exchanged letters and, at her request, he sent cash so she could book a romantic trip to Australia to meet him.But she allegedly kept the money and he never heard from her again.
The brains behind the apparent scam was identified as Yuri Lazarev, 34, a photographer who took pictures of his wife, Anna, and other local women and posted them on the internet. Anna went by the fake name of Alfia Magdeeva, and she was the one Mr McCarthy fell for.
A police officer close to the investigation revealed that in most cases "Alfia" allegedly snared victims by posing as a virgin, who wanted to wait until she had met the right man. The other women Lazarev had taken pictures of "had no idea they were being offered around the world as marriage partners on the internet", he said."Nor did they know Lazarev and his wife were writing back to love-struck foreigners asking for money, in their names." But what the alleged scam artists failed to account for was Mr McCarthy's determination to pursue the matter as far up the Russian hierarchy as he could.

In his letter, he told Mr Putin: "I recently had $US650 stolen from me by an immoral cunning Russian woman, Alfia Magdeeva, who misrepresented herself on the internet."I don't ever expect to see my money again, but I would be grateful if you could make sure she declared this money as income (which I doubt) and so paid tax on it."I would much rather see my money going to the Russian Government to help the Russian people, than to criminals on the internet who would happily bring discredit on their country for personal gain."I have always admired the Russian people but this incident sours that feeling," the Australian's letter added.

The only indication something was being done at an official level came in 2002 when Australian Federal Police contacted Mr McCarthy and interviewed him on behalf of Moscow investigators. In September, Yuri and Anna Lazarev were finally captured in Chelyabinsk, a bleak city in the Russian Ural Mountains. Olga Pfefer, of Chelyabinsk police, said that of the 1500 foreign men allegedly cheated out of money by the gang between 2000 and 2002 they had found detailed biographical information on about 70. But she added: "Mr McCarthy was one of only 10 who provided police with full details so we could conduct the case against the couple."
A spokesman for Mr Putin's office said: "The complaint from Australia to the President was regarded as serious. It was passed on to the Russian Interior Ministry for the police to follow up in the correct way." Mr McCarthy said he did not want to be perceived as "the wronged naive loser who struck back" and neither did he want to see all Russian women on the internet "unfairly stereotyped". He said: "There are hundreds of Russian scammers on the internet but there are hundreds of thousands of Russian women, along with millions of women from other countries, with honest intentions and the usual dreams."

May 16, 2003, San Diego Press Office...

Internet Dating Scam Dismantled

San Diego, California - John R. Kingston, Acting Special Agent in Charge, San Diego Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, today announces the arrests of two individuals on charges of Conspiracy and Wire Fraud.

Robert L. McCoy, born January 8, 1964, and his wife, Anna V. Grountovaia, born October 12, 1971, were arrested at 6:00 a.m. on Tuesday, May 13, 2003, without incident at their home in Rancho Cucamonga, California. Their arrest was pursuant to an indictment filed by a Federal Grand Jury for operating a fraudulent Russian dating scheme via the Internet.

The arrests marked the culmination of an investigation conducted by the FBI, in coordination with the U. S. Postal Inspection Service, the U. S. Secret Service, the Internet Fraud Complaint Center, the National White Collar Crime Center, the Federal Trade Commission, and the Department of Justice.

Initiated in January of 2002 by the FBI's Cyber Crime Squad in San Diego, the investigation began after an individual reported he had been defrauded over the Internet. The victim informed the FBI that he had been induced to wire thousands of dollars to an agency which offered to expedite the travel of a Russian woman he had developed a relationship with over the Internet.

The indictment alleges that McCoy and Grountavaia posed as Russian women under various names and posted on-line ads seeking a serious relationship with men. At times, McCoy and Grountavaia would also respond to on-line ads of other men in order to induce them into developing on-line relationships. After the initial contact was established, McCoy and Grountavaia would then send e-mails and contact the victims by telephone to entice the victims into wiring monies to Russia.

In these communications, the indictment alleges that McCoy and Grountavaia, posing as a Russian woman, would claim to belong to an 'agency' that could help facilitate a visit to the victim's home country. Under the guise of this Russian agency, the indictment further alleges that McCoy and Grountavaia sent additional e-mails to the victims, instructing them to wire sums ranging from $1,790 to $1,850, so the agency could process flight arrangements, obtain visas, and secure placements for the Russian woman in student exchange programs. After the victims wired the money, believing the Russian woman would soon arrive, McCoy and Grountavaia would then cease all contact with the victims.

After processing at the FBI Building in San Diego, California, both McCoy and Grountavaia were arraigned before United States Magistrate Judge Louisa S. Porter on Tuesday, May 13, 2003. The case has been assigned to United States District Court Judge John S. Rhodes for trial.

If convicted, McCoy and Grountavaia face a maximum penalty of five years incarceration and a $250,000 fine on charges of Conspiracy to Commit Wire Fraud and twenty years incarceration and another $250,000 fine on the charges of Wire Fraud.
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post Dec 15 2006, 04:05 PM
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Group: Admin
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Above is a couple hundred more FW allegedly trying to scam men.
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Name: Elena Abramova

City: Kirov
Country: Russia
Added: 2002-04-21
Updated: 2002-04-21
This person's strategy is a 'money for correspondence' scheme, but a little altered. She wants badly to keep exchanging letters with you and only you, but she owes money for two months to the Internet club (though started corresponding with you just week ago). Manager of the club kindly allowed her to write one more time, but she promised to bring the money in 3 days. About 100$ urgently needed!
Name: Zoya Chernonos

City: Kremenchug, Poltava area
Country: Ukraine
Added: 2002-04-20
Updated: 2002-08-17
Here is a classic example of 'money for correspondence' scam. In first letter you're already Darling, in second Honey and she kisses you, in third you're a Sweetheart and she loves you, but besides all that she gives you directions how to transfer her money.

Everything is designed for you to feel that you're one and only and very special, big age difference doesn't really matter, only your love, but you have to prove your intentions to be serious by helping her financially just after couple of letters. Please, check scammer TatianaBotvinkina Similarity is just obvious, probably it's a group of people working together or one person using different aliases.
Name: Tatiana Botvinkina

City: Kremenchug, Poltava area
Country: Ukraine
Added: 2002-04-20
Updated: 2003-01-14
Here is Tatiana Botvinkina, person using 'money for correspondence' scheme. Traditional scenario and traditional end of the story for those who didn't prove their care by sending her money. Please, check her strategy-twin SvetlanaFal Pattern is obvious, which makes us think that it might be a group of scammers working together or one person showing up under different appearances.
Name: Nina Karas

City: Nikolaev
Country: Ukraine
Added: 2002-04-20
Updated: 2002-11-23
Please, pay special attention to this case. Nina Karas is very sophisticated scammer and very merciless one. She would give you heartbreaking sob story at the same time making you think that you're her most special person and her last hope. And you would totally believe her. She is a really good psychologist, she will find your sensitive spots and won't hesitate to use them. She will leave your heart broken and your bank account couple hundred dollars lighter, so beware!
Name: Svetlana Koval

City: Krivoy Rog
Country: Ukraine
Added: 2002-04-20
Updated: 2002-04-20
Here is very interesting type of scammer - sincere one! She doesn't play brain games, no emotions involved and she executes her scheme quite quickly. She lets you know about her true desires and intentions in second letter. Think twice before getting involved, though perhaps some people would find her 'rules' acceptable.
Name: Alice Komisarova

City: Samara
Country: Russia
Added: 2002-05-29
Updated: 2002-12-06
Here is the classic 'accident scheme'. She becomes a victim of sudden accident and desperately needs your help. She writes that 'decided to appeal exactly to you' because she 'liked you very much' and all the hope she has is on you only. She adds 'I need no one else but you!'. Sounds nice, but you're not the only one who receive these lines. No doubt that this accident will keep 'happening' to her over and over again.
Name: Svetlana Gausheva

City: Saransk
Country: Russia
Added: 2002-06-04
Updated: 2002-06-04
Here is a scammer from Russia, city of Saransk, Svetlana Gausheva. Technique is plain - 'money for correspondence'. What is nice, she asks for money in the very first letter. At least you won't waste much time.
Name: Yana Melnichuk

City: Yoshkar-Ola
Country: Russia, Mari-El
Added: 2002-04-21
Updated: 2003-01-22
Scammer Yana Melnichuk from Yoshkar-Ola, Russia. After exchanging several letters and creating illusion of special and close relations, which she very successfully does she asks to send money for visa and tickets, then she falls ill and needs money to cover medical expenses. While she's allegedly in the hospital, her friend Ekaterina Valieva steps in and money to be transferred to her name. In another case Yana got 750 Euro for visa and simply disappeared afterwards.
Name: Lubov Grigorieva

City: Dnepropetrovsk
Country: Ukraine
Added: 2002-04-21
Updated: 2002-08-08
This is experienced and sophisticated scammer, we 'hunted' her ourselves. She(or he?) is very clever and involves you in relations you believe to be totally true and amazingly close and special. She sounds soooo absolutely credible and trustworthy, she sends you sweet little notes and nice cards. Then she says that she needs money for correspondence, because she is a student and Internet cafe is expensive and of course you're willing to help. How much she needs? 'You can send me as much as you want. It is up to you'. Ain't it smart?! Looks like an innocence itself, but why we're so sure she is a scammer? Because we happened to know that photos she used belong to beautiful Ukrainian model (by the way, her photos often used by different scammers, please, check our Photomodels section!). So, beware! Whoever it is, this person is clever. We're confident that if she'd discover that she is busted, she'd just change her email and set of photos and go right on.
Name: Ekaterina Strelkova

City: Yoshkar-Ola
Country: Russia, Mari-El
Added: 2002-04-22
Updated: 2002-04-25
This woman is very sophisticated, she sneaks step by step up into your heart, making perfect impression of sincerity which later turns to be false. Though she might make typical mistake that even experienced scammers often do and this mistake must be a warning for those who want to avoid being scammed. Here it is - using of generic 'carbon copies', letters that on first glance might seem very personal and sweet, but after second look they appear somewhat abstract and could easily have been addressed to somebody else. You may also notice that questions that you asked in previous letters are not answered. This case is a sample of 'visa/tickets money'
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There has been, and probably always will be, endless debate over what is a good wife. There is this article, supposedly from a May 1955 Housekeeping Monthly magagine, that speaks directly to this question. There are other sources as well that speak on the issue. One is from Aristotle, another is this one about "Do men really want a wife like June Cleaver." They bring up some very good points. It is one of those questions that heats up each side of the debate and truly has a different answer for each man. What do you want in a wife? Beauty? Brains? Charm? Home and family oriented? Strong willed? Independent? Docile? If you write out a list of the ten things that you must have in your life partner what would they be? Only you can decide the answers to this question.

We also have the question of a Western woman vs. a Foreign woman. This is commonly refered to as a Mail Order Bride or MOB. While I am sure that it would take a lot of stamps to ship a Mail Order Bride I think you might have a problem with customs! Which would you like? Many men have found exactly what they desired in a woman from another country. How did they do this and what are the pitfalls involved in this process? This is where can help out. This site along with our sister sites Planet Love and Russian Women Discussion are all about the search for this woman and how to have a happy and successful and long lasting marrige to a foreign woman. Are there any good women left in the West? Sure there are. Are they easy to find? Not on your life!

We, as men, are more and more wanting to step back from the types of women we meet now. With many women taking on the "me first" feminist agenda and the man continuing to take a back seat to her desire for power and control many men are turned off by this and look back to having a more traditional woman as our partner. What does that mean? That is one hell of a good question.

Regardless of the origin or reality of the article itself it has come into focus over the last couple of years regarding the basic premise of the content. This is especially true when it comes to Western men seeking to find a wife from a foreign country (you know, that Mail Order Bride thing again). There are all sorts of reasons for this and as many fantasies as well. The truth of both of these is a varied as the men involved in the search to find a good wife and the women involved in the search to find a good husband.

So, what do we as men want in a woman, partner, friend, and wife? Do we want her to "fix us" after we are married? If we were good enough to marry in the first place then what is this bix fixation (pun intended) on fixing us? Do we want her to stop taking care of herself after we are married? (No need to bother looking good now right, I've already got him so I can quit trying to look my best and I can gain all the weight I want.) Do we want her to be the boss? Do we want her to put her career first? Do we want to come home to a bag of delivery food? Do we want to change everything about us that made us who we are? Do we want to spend our evenings and weekends taking the latest "relationship test" from some magazine to find out how inadequate we are? If you answered "yes" to any of this then you are in the wrong place. Go to or and you will be much happier.

On the other side of this issue is the position taken by the radical feminists. Also known as "feminazis" for their attitudes and position regarding the roles of the man and the woman in a relationship. These "ladies" love to further thier agenda with tales of horror regarding Mail Order Brides. They also want a man to be sensitive to their needs and desires to the point of losing everything about him that makes him a man. Here is a version of this "guide" written by one of those women.

What I like about this, or rather what I find funny in a sad pathetic way, is how she basically says to pretend to care and listen to the man who she supposedly loves and wants to spend her life with as a way to further her agenda in having, getting more, and maintaining all control of the relationship. When I read this kind of "opinion" I am further convinced in my decision to get as far away as I can from this type of woman who has become the norm rather than the exception in our Western society.
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Scamming Women

Some men will claim scam when a woman simply decides to terminate a relationship in which he's invested a lot of money through travel, phone bills, and sometimes financial assistance for the lady. This may be due to a conscious or unconscious belief on the man's part that he is "buying" a woman. Those who really believe in mail order brides probably think they've been scammed when any woman they want decides she doesn't want him. In my own personal experience, I encountered one "woman" (it was most likely a man using the lady's photos) out of 150 who was shady. There are indeed scamming women, and men pretending to be women. The countries from which the majority of the ladies come from generally have a considerably higher level of corruption and petty cons are quite common in these places. A good rule of thumb for avoiding scams is to not send money. Pretty simple, but some men rely on their money to impress a woman. Not a good idea.

Signs that your lady may be trying to scam you-

She's "in love" with you after only a few letters/emails

Until you've met in person and spent time together, any claims of love should be suspect. Even if she seems genuine about it, you should seriously consider moving on to a more rational, level-headed person who wants to take the time to get to know someone REALLY well before making ANY type of commitment.

She needs money to secure your lodging for a visit

I had this one tried on me personally. There's no need to send money to secure a hotel, etc. for your visit. If she suggests this, be careful. Especially if she asks you to send cash.

My mother/grandmother/son/daughter needs an operation

It's not appropriate at all in any culture I know of to ask a stranger you've never met to help you.

She offers to come visit you

But of course, she needs money for a visa, airline ticket, etc. In many of these countries, very few ladies can qualify for a tourist visa. Perhaps some are niave enough to believe they can get one, but more likely they simply want the cash.

She wants to study English

Unless you've met in person and things are serious, you have no reason to be paying for her to study English. If you do decide to pay for this, make sure the fees are realistic. Costs should be considerably less than what you'd expect to pay here in the US. I paid for my wife's English lessons while she was waiting for the fiancee visa in Colombia. The cost was $50 per month. Some men have been told these lessons costs upwards of $500 per month and have paid it, BEFORE EVER MEETING THE LADY! Trying to impress her with their financial assistance no doubt. I doubt the women were impressed with these men's intelligence!
Resources listing scamming, and potentially scamming women-

* A page dedicated to exposing potential East European scammers

Scamming Agencies

Email forwarding

There are plenty of legitimate, above board agencies offering email translation and forwarding. However, this method of operation can easily be used to con men out of money. You never know exactly who you're writing to! Be sure if you use this type of service that the agency will not filter out her address and/or telephone number. Ask her for those VERY early in the correspondence. If they are not forthcoming..... run, don't walk, away. When the service has no other means of generating revenue than the email forwarding and translation, they have to remain between you and the lady in order to continue the cash stream. As soon as you bypass them and start communicating directly with the lady, the agency's out of a job. Sometimes those "free" contact services where you pay nothing for addresses can be pretty expensive when each two way exchange costs you money.

o The letters are completely impersonal, and she does not seem to be responding to the questions you've brought up in a previous letter. Maybe "she's" not writing the letters. They could be general form letters with little other than a sentence or two changed to make it seem legitimate.

o My Mother/Grandmother/Son/Etc. needs an operation

Agency plants

Many of the free, or nearly free, on-line international dating services have ads placed there by agencies. Typically, the women start corresponding with men and then inform them that they can't pay their internet access fees and that if the man wants to continue corresponding with her, he should pay $$ to the agency providing e-mail services for the lady.

Sometimes the ladies aren't even aware that the agency placed their personal ad at one of these sites. Sometimes the lady doesn't exist at all but is rather a pretty face with an e-mail staff ready to write back to men who fall for them. This is particularly a problem with ladies from the FSU and some of the free or low cost sites have even had

Guess who are the people invloved as pimps in the child sex trade? That would be female FW!

The producers and investigators arrive across from what looks like a local café, but it's really a brothel. The owner is a woman who goes by the name Madam Lang. She's eager to do business.  She leads the group through the café and up a back staircase to meet some girls for hire. And when she says they're girls, she means it literally: young girls, younger than we even imagined. And as an extra attraction, she says they're still virgins. ----msnbc
« Last Edit: December 17, 2006, 08:48:37 PM by AWS » Logged

IMBRA is a civil rights violation!
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Posts: 1272

« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2006, 10:59:33 PM »

Excellent information, AWS.  And what makes this most significant is that American men are required by IMBRA to provide highly sensitive details of his life to COMPLETE STRANGERS, i.e. women that the men want to write to.

Since some of these women are fronts for organized criminals, IMBRA needlessly exposes American men to the possibility of significant financial harm.

If Congress did its job properly (and 73% of the public thinks that it does not do its job properly) they would make laws to PROTECT American men, if any such laws are necessary, rather than to EXPOSE THEM TO GREATER HARM.

Advocacy groups that get taxpayer money for "protecting" foreign women and the thoughtless media call foreign woman a "mail order bride" if she met her husband via internet.  This is American imperialism, it is denigrating, insulting and portrays the women as helpless fools.
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Posts: 1204

This is a subway in Russia. Poor country?


« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2006, 01:54:10 AM »

[You never know exactly who you're writing to! Be sure if you use this type of service that the agency will not filter out her address and/or telephone number. Ask her for those VERY early in the correspondence. If they are not forthcoming..... run, don't walk, away.]

This is why IMBRA must be defeated. An American must immediately have the right to know the name, phone number and address of the supposed women he is contacting. That is what has always made the industry so compelling and that is why the scammers are mostly on and other sites that concentrate on paranoid anonymity.

IMBRA is about legislating American paranoia despite the fact that men have known the home addresses of the women they wanted to court for millions of years. This American paranoia with men knowing a woman's address is just plain wrong...especially when legislated.

If you know a woman's home address, you can have flowers sent by an agency NOT connected with the website you bought the contact information from. If the other agency says that the person doesn't exist, you've just saved yourself tons of time and thousands of dollars and trauma.

And it is NOT stalker activity to send flowers to any woman in any country except the paranoid USA.

The US government cannot constitutionally legislate that the initial correspondance must be done by anonymous email (which is what IMBRA does). In fact, it is the anonymous paranoid environment of that is attracting so many scammers.

With the scammers on their way to jail more and more often in Russia, all the more reason for a man to be able to quickly check that someone exists...which means knowing exactly who she is.

Good advice: If you have doubts about a woman, give me her phone number. I speak Russian very well. I will call her and if she does not remember who you are (because she needs to know which of the suckers I am calling for) then she's a fraud.

I should be able to call "because Phil wanted me to say hi for him" and she will be so excited and know key things about Phil.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2006, 01:59:32 AM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
Posts: 31

« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2006, 06:48:50 PM »

Quote from: NewTaylor
A basic concern that I have is with false abuse charges.  Based upon the government’s own study on the “mail order bride” industry, the government believes that many of the foreign women who are marrying American men are doing so for citizenship and personal gain.  Love isn’t in the equation. [1]

IMBRA will facilitate false abuse claims.  An American man potentially risks everything by marrying a “mail order bride”.  I don’t think that this situation is by accident.

It may be that women in these “mail order bride” marriages do suffer higher rates of abuse.  The simple fact of the matter is that we don’t know, because there aren’t any reliable statistics on this subject.

Any meaningful government regulation of this industry should protect both the men and the women involved in the process.  Regulation is needed, but not in the form of IMBRA.  IMBRA assumes that all of the abuses in the process are coming from men and the “marriage brokers”.  That simply isn’t correct.  IMBRA should be amended, so that it provides some protections to men who are being taken advantage of.  I do agree with Megan Beyer that some of these foreign women are using American men.

1.   Robert J. Scholes, Ph.D., "The "Mail-Order Bride" Industry and Its Impact on            U.S. Immigration,"

New Taylor has accurately identified  a very important issue with the statement, "The simple fact of the matter is we don't know, because there aren't any reliable statistics on this subject".

More than likely we will never have any reliable on abuse rates of foreign women who marry men through matchmaking organizations.  In order to undersand this statement one must look at the reasons why there are no accurate statistics  by specifically  examining abuse rates of foreign immigrant women who met their husbands via a marriage broker.

Reason number one) The proponents  of IMBRA have FAILED to define what domestic violence is and so they can easily manipulate gullable politicans and the public.  Even if they define what constitutes domestic violence they will change their defination (quietly) and then apply one set of data to a completely different circumstance that has no relavancy in order to deceive the audience. For example Senator Cantwell  cited a study of high abuse rates of hispanic women as a reason to regulate IMB's while deceptively failing to mention the study involved women who did NOT met their husband via a International matchmaking organization.

Reason number two) The proponents of IMBRA conduct studies that are biased using procedures that lack any reliable scientific  procedures or ethical means. For example they often conduct informal telephone surveys using "One sided" questions an atrocious methoid  that clearly lacks credability and responsible ethics.

Reason number three) Domestic violence can be classified under a myriad of crimes making statistical tracking of "domestic abuse" almost impossible. There is no one single crime denoted simply as "domestic violence" but rather domestic violence could be classified as "disordely conduct, assault,  murder, stalking.... etc.)

Reason number four) Domestic violence is often not reported which further clouds the picture

Reason number five)  Many imigrant women will file false charges of abuse and the women victims don't have to prove anything. They get  permanent legal resident status automatically in exchange for filing false abuse charges.
( More than likely the radical extremists will likely use these false and misleading statistics in the future as a reason to regulate IMB's).

The only reliable indicator of domestic violence is the "Intimate partner violence rate" because murder is always reported and is statistically only denoted as one crime- murder.  This makes statistical tracking  feasible. We know that there have been 3 foreign women murdered by their husbands in IMB faciliated relationships over the past 12 years; meanshile 16,800 American women residents have been killed in the same time frame.
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