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FOUR REASONS American men seek romance abroad: Prague, Ha Long Bay, Red Square, small villages in Latin America. Somehow meeting a Czech, Vietnamese, Russian or Peruvian/Colombian/Brazilian woman for a date at one of these exotic places is incomparably more exciting than meeting a hometown girl at the local coffeeshop. Opponents of a man's right to meet foreign women online never stop to consider how enjoyable it is to travel/work/live abroad and learn new cultures and languages while seeking a marriage partner.
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Author Topic: Pbs Television Talk Show "debate" On Imbra: Only Women On Panel  (Read 86723 times)
imbraisevil
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« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2006, 07:00:59 AM »

And AWS made another one of his GREAT posts too. You are correct when you say that the feminists love to promote the myth that these women are just trying to come to America via green card. Of course they don't actually KNOW any of these women but in their self-righteousness somehow "know" that these women are up to no good!

Feminism is either a malicious fabrication of events (filing a fasle police report is supposed to be a felony) or a bunch of half-truths stated over and over by people in positions of power and influence.

Here is one half-truth  repeated the fembots: there is a sex trade that needs to be regulated (like parts of Nevada already does) only it's not in the USA. The sex trade is controlled by the Russian mafia in Eastern Europe and mostly by female pimps ( many are restaurant owners) in Asian countries. That is right, in Asian countries the sex trade business is managed mostly by females and not males. IMBRA tries to paint all USA citizens as pimps and whorehouse operators due to foreigners taking advantage of their own and enslaving some of them in prostitution rings.

Men seeking a foreign wife are not looking for prostitutes as the fembots keep implying. For an American  man to find a prostitute he need only to become a corporate manager in the USA where there are plenty of women who will do nasty things for as little as a dollar an hour raise. I have seen more than one billion dollar corporation fail because the managers only hired and promoted people that were willing to sleep with them. My corporate horror stories are backed by sworn testimony by the way.

Look at the current Miss USA and Miss Teen USA. They are staying in Trump's building and living the high life literally even though their behavior is suspect to put it gently. What is the difference between sleeping your way to raises and bonuses working in a corporation or being a street prostitute in the USA? The only difference is sleeping your way up in a corporation with willing partners is legal and can net you more money than a street prostitute. I used to see corporate managers simply pick the best looking female applicants, offer them $50,000 a year jobs at ages 18-22 and play the who will sleep with corporate managers or executives numbers game. Hire 40 women at $50,000 a year (pay them with stock holder's money which is illegal but happens more than people think) and then a few will sleep with managers out of greed, desperation or actual threats of termination.

One should note that pro-IMBRA crusaders were given a million dollar grant to spread lies and make back room deals with judges. They even hire or bring in foreign "models" at their functions which the atrocious IMBRA law conveniently allows. What do you think these "models" do when they go to the bathroom or sneak away with a judge? I think you get the picture. IMBRA conveniently lets high paid foreign "models" into the USA without much hassle. These models are often  used by the pro-IMBRA crowd in nefarious ways. How much prostitution does a $1,000,0000 grant like the TJC received buy? I will let you decide for yourself.

The real sex trade in the USA is done at the corporate level. Once again look at Miss Teen USA and Miss USA while keeping in mind that Miss Universe is owned by the same corporations. The Miss Universe pageant does not have any problem getting their foreign contestants visas as they fall under the "model" category which IMBRA allows. Are you all starting to see how the IMBRA game is being played? I have seen women that displayed the behavior if the current Miss USA routinely make $80,000 a year if they worked in corporate America.  I have also seen the same type of behavior with street prostitutes. No, I do not hire street prostitutes. I have lived in small towns where people knew who the street prostitutes were and who had high paying corporate jobs and it was often hard to tell the difference by their general behavoir traits.  

What the fembots did with IMBRA is a civil rights violation law that implies that all people who are not wealthy  and who can't afford to hire foreign "models" are sexual predators and that all sex with FW amounts to attempted rape. I literally know hundreds of men on a first name basis  who want to marry FW who in fact are too nice and honorable for most American women and their consistently disgusting behavior. Most American men seeking foreign women (FW) to marry are in fact too gentle and too virtuous to be comfortable around AW vipers.


You ARE correct AWS, at least when it comes to the majority of Asian women, that they would be very happy if the men moved to their country. Does anyone think these family oriented ladies WANT to be separated from their families? Their move to another country is a sacrifice they make in order to be with their man (something an American woman would NEVER do! Hell they wouldn't move next door if it meant inconveniencing themselves.


Not one single potential foreign bride I have established a relationship with has wanted to live in the USA. They all said they want me to move to their country. The "she only wants a green card" angle from the pro-IMBRA facists is a myth. FW want to be with their families, friends, have access to health car and take vacations cheaply in their own countries. Most FW do not want to be American corporate or whores.

It's true most American women will not do anything to help a good and humble man if it inconveniences themselves. I recently took a vacation. In years passed and before I figured out the sheer evilness of the fembots I would insist on paying everything on vacations for the woman. Now I simply ask that AW pay their own way. Guess what? No AW has vacationed with me in the last three years! Some of the women who wanted to come with me if I paid for their trip make $200,000 plus a year and they still won't pay their way! Talk about prostitution being rampant in the USA among American women. Sheesh!

AWS then shows a lot of horror stories involving Russian women and scams. I don't doubt that a lot if not all are probably true.

However I do not really know much about Russian women (or East European women) and I will be the first to admit it, therefore it would be unfair for me to comment on any scams from these countries.


I doubt 100% are true but let's say a super low estimate of 50% are true. That is still thousands and thousands of documented horror stories of men who are USA citizens being taking advantage of by foreigners. IMBRA is disastrous physically, emotionally and financially to decent USA citizens wishing to enrich their cultural liives by marrying a foreign woman. IMBRA is also a national security risk due to the ease at which unscrupulous foreigners or even Americans posing as foreigners can take advantage of or kill American citizens after obtaining personal details about them.

I DO know Asian women, however, VERY VERY well. In general terms only, I do know their cultures, their traits, their moral principles, their intentions and their sincerity, etc.

Every country has golddiggers. Some way more than others (America), some way less than others (countries other than America.) Remember, America is THE land of golddiggers! Way more scams going on here by female criminals than anywhere else. WAY MORE!


That has been my observation as well.

Yet what laws are there in place to protect men from these American female golddigers and scammers that are so extremely prevelant in our society?


Very few if any. Many laws in the USA are in place to take advantage of men using reverse discrimination. If a law is created by a feminist then you can be it will be applied to keep good men down and let evil flourish.

In Asia however, a golddigger stands out like a sore thumb. WHY? Because the overwhelming majority of Asian women are very sincere and honest in their intentions and this is the TRUTH. Even if they come from poor families, they still have strong values, in fact some of the nicest women come from the poorest families. In the American feminist's mind, however, if a person is poor, then they must be a thief. WRONG!

Cash is king in the USA and females that work in corporate America are doing very well using sex or looks as a tools for promotions and bonuses. Same as street prostitutes do.

Even if a lady is poor, she will use her own money to contact a man if she is truly interested in him and will NOT ask for money as she has pride.

Funny how many men seeking FW don't care about about how much money she has. This is a concept that enrages the pro-IMBRA crowd. The foreign woman I will marry will have to meet my character standards. I don't care how much money she has. Most of my friends seeking FW are the same way. I will marry because of love and admiration that money can't buy. That is if the pro-IMBRA crowd does not stone me to death for believing in love and admiration of character over the the love of money or power.


This is one of the main reason why I like the "old-fashioned" way of writing letters and making phone calls as opposed to emails where you never really know who are writing to.

A handwritten letter is time consuming, true, but it is far more PERSONAL and when you are dealing with friendship which can lead to potential marriage, it doesn't get any more personal than that.

You can see each other's handwriting. You can exchange REAL photos, You can open up a lot more than you normally would about each other. You REALLY get to know each other and by the time you actually meet in person, it is just the frosting on the cake because by that time you DO know each other.

When you have read a number of actual letters from Asian ladies, you get a feel for them. On the RARE ocassion when a golddigger may come along, she will stand out like such a sore thumb it is painfully obvious.


Here is a link to the DLIhttp://www.dli.army.mil They do language analysis for the CIA and of course for the different branches of the USA military. They are specialists at determining personalities through speech patterns and through typed or written paragraph structure analysis.

A cultured and wise man will never give out personal information willy nilly. A wise man must first determine if the person he wants to get involved with is honest enough to be trusted. IMBRA is a national security risk as there is no way to determine if the person one is writing is sincere or honest. I do not need to know the true name or address at the beginning of any relationship with an FW. I analyze her sentence structure and listen very carefully to the cadence and tone of her voice on the phone. This takes time. As much as two years can be spent trying to figure out the true motivations of someone. IMBRA takes away the right of every USA citizen to be cautious and careful when seeking a foreign wife or foreign husband.

AWS mentions some of the things a golddigger may say like asking for money for postage, school, a sick parent, phone bills, etc. etc. They are NOT going to waste a lot of their time writing letters before they will do this and this makes them even more obvious too.

ANY guy with an ounce of common sense will know to drop this girl like a hot cake no matter how attractive she may be. You can also assume she is writing to as many men as possible. Think with your brain NOT your dick!


Because IMBRA was designed and implanted by feminists it lacks common sense.

Now an exception to this will be in the case of Filipina ladies. For many of them, postage is expensive by our standards and if you have been writing to a lady for a while and feel comfortable with her, it is a nice gesture to offer to send a couple of bucks from time to time to help out with postage (or IRCs - International Reply Coupons - which you can buy from the post office and she can exchange them for stamps in her country.)

99 9/10 % of men have enough common sense not to be taken. They know they cannot "buy" a tourist visa for the lady - she either qualifies or she doesn't - PERIOD! They know NO travel agency can just "get" it for her for a price. They know, depending on the Friendship Agency they use that the ladies MUST be able to speak and write English to join (letters verify this easily) and that the Philippines is the THIRD LARGEST ENGLISH SPEAKING COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!


IMBRA does not allow the proper time or resources for USA citizens to find out if their potential foreign life long partner is legitimate or sincere which unfairly and brutally puts USA citizens seeking foreigners to marry at great risk.

Also there are no organized scams going on in Asia that I'm aware of.

This is why I like the old-fashioned method of writing letters. It is way harder for scammers to do their thing. Too time consuming and costly.


Analyzing letters over a peroid of time is indeed the most cost effective way to find out the if one's potential husband or wife is sincere. IMBRA blocks USA citizen's right to privacy and the right to carefully and cautiously choose a life long foreign wife or husband.

Now when it comes to the internet and email, however, I realize it is VERY convenient. Impersonal but convenient. You can contact your loved one cheaply and quickly. However guys have to keep in mind that it is also very convenient for scammers out there. You may think you are "talking" to someone named Natasha in Russia but in reality you may talking to a guy named Boris who will soon be asking you to send money to his paypal account for more photos to be taken to send you, etc. Not only that but Boris may have 1,000 potential suckers on his email list. Of course there are plenty of female scammers out there too.

However I realize that there may be bad stuff going on in Russia but I'm sure the majority of the women, just like regular people everywhere, are nice ladies and are sincere and honest.

AWS is right though that men just need to use common sense. This alone would eliminate enough scams to end them.


One can still study sentence and paragraph structure in typed letters to determine personality traits of it's author or authors. With IMBR the safety and well being of USA citizens is immediately compromised as personal information must be given without being able to attempt to determine the personally traits of the foreigner one wishes to communicate with. The IMBRA law, which mandates a lack of insight, illegally throws caution to the wind and poses a national security risk to USA citizens in my opinion.

What I have noticed with the pro-IMBRA crowd is that their reading comprehension levels are at about the third grade level while the hardcore feminists generally have first grade level reading comprehension skills. IMBRA is a short sited civil rights violation created and implemented by non-thinkers and by people who are determined to make the USA a dangerous place by requiring personal information be shared to untrusted foreigners.

Perhaps I should repeat it. IF A WOMAN ASKS FOR MONEY, END IT RIGHT THEN!
-------------------------------------------

This is why it is nice using the services of a agency where you can actually talk to them and get advice, which if they have been around for a decent length of time, they will have plenty of. These places actually care about their female and male members and want the best for them as opposed to places that only want your money. It is called honesty and integrity and no "agency certification" by some place trying to make an extra buck is necessary. The female and male members do the certifying, take my word for it.
--------------------------------------------


When an FW starts asking for money it's red flag and will lead to other red flags. If one is marrying for love and companionship then money is not needed.

Also never forget the motive behind bogus entities like Tahirih Justice Center who claim to be concerned about "protecting" these women.

That is complete and utter BS! Their main goals are to STOP these women from coming here and marrying American men and to MAKE MONEY, NOT necessarly in that order.

The more confusion they can add into the mix, like making the men suspect the women are frauds, making the women think the men are all abusive, making ludicrous "rules" for the agencies and their clients, the more they acheive these goals.



The TJC uses paid FW "models" at their functions. As VA noted earlier. Some of these paid FW "models" ran away in horror and refused to do some of the things the TJC asked them to do. Do you see the connection with the million dollar grant the TJC received and the model exemption in IMBRA? Do you wonder what "back room deals" between wealthy or powerful power brokers and paid foreign "models are? Again look at the behavior of Miss USA and Miss Teen USA both of which so far have kept their high paid jobs. The power elite are still abusing and taking advantage of women. Remember when Donald Trump said he might use his pretty female friends to steal Rosie's girlfriend away from her? Now look at the model exemption clause in IMBRA. Then look at how TJC uses foreign "models" at their grant paid for functions. See the pattern forming here?

Feminists have no desire to help good American men or to help any woman who is virtuous. IMBRA rewards bad behavior from foreigners and coddles the power elite who are corrupt. The FW that ran away from one TJC function because the TJC wanted them acting like Miss USA did before she is scheduled to enter rehab. IMBRA does not adversely effect wealthy CEOs or the TJC  if they choose to pay foreign "models" to do their dirty work.

You want to know who the REAL golddiggers and frauds are out there? It is the feminist groups who CON politicians and donors into believing there is a problem with false "facts and stats" combined with hysteria and enough nagging to get the people controlling the money to give it to them in order to get them off their backs!

THERE IS 1,000 TIMES MORE FRAUD AND ABUSE GOING ON WITH THESE "WOMEN'S PROTECTION" FEMINIST GROUPS OUT THERE IN ONE DAY THAN COULD EVER BE DONE WITH FOREIGN WOMEN IN A CENTURY!

THESE feminist groups are the ones who should be investigated and regulated, NOT regular men and women who are simply seeking friendship and a potential meaningfull relationship with (gasp) someone from another country that may not be feminized by women's groups with an agenda of their own political correctness!

You reporters out there! You want a REAL story? Try investigating Tahirih Justice Center and their FRAUDULENT ACTIVITIES! THAT is where the REAL criminal action is happening!


Crime and drug abuse are part of the feminist movement and supporters of IMBRA in my opinion. Look at the methods sadists use to recruit and carry on their businesses. Then look at the feminist movement. After that read about the battle Satan wages to bring about the death of good?Godly people here on earth. It will all make sense after you do that. Look very closely at the model exception in IMBRA and then look at what is on the news today regarding the behavior of models and beauty pageant winners.

Ok, back to the bat cave for me. Usually I just do admin and don't type very long posts but I had to get this off my chest. I feel better now plus I did not have to give anyone my home address like IMBRA would have required to make this post.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2006, 06:02:18 PM by AWS » Logged

IMBRA is a civil rights violation!
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« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2006, 08:05:56 AM »

The PBS Google video needs to be saved on everyone's hard drive and the link needs to be on the front page of ODR in my opinion.

Can someone please find out what motion the TJC made yesterday in the EC trial?
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« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2006, 09:50:09 AM »

Thanks again AWS and ALL of you other PATRIOTS out there for your time and thoughts and ideas.

I love Christmas like most NON-BAHAIS and I truly feel EVERY post is a gift from that person. The best part is that they are the "gifts that keep on giving" because we are fortunate enough to get some everyday and be able to go back and re-read them when we desire.

Some post frequently. Some post ocassionaly. Some post rarely. Excluding my own posts (I know there can be mixed feelings at times about them but I do speak from my heart, knowledge and imagination and extremely funny/bad/warped (?) sense of humor), I feel EVERY post by EVERY one of you guys (and ocassional girl) is a gift and (speaking only for myself) I consider them to be a special gift from that person.

There is not a person here who is not busy in one way or another and to take the time and thought to make a post is a valuable contribution for what we believe in. We ALL love our country. We all love women. We all do NOT want to harm women nor see them harmed. We all love our wives and girlfriends. We all love freedom and civil liberties or we wouldn't be here. We all want to pursue our lives, liberty and happiness. We all believe friendship and love with the opposite sex is OUR (and their) business, NOT the government's and especially not radical feminists!

I'm going to start correcting myself on this last "label" as Veteran and others have said, it is the RADICAL feminists that rub everyone the wrong way.

A lot of women would consider themselves to be feminists. The overwhelming majority of these would probably be offended if someone thought they were RADICAL feminists. After all the word "radical" has certain conotations to it, not necessarily good. The pro-IMBRA women are RADICAL feminists. They may claim to be only "regular" feminists, but they are NOT!

"Normal" feminism is about being equal, specifically with men of course. I have no problem with that as I feel we ALL are equal, especially in the eyes of God or whoever you may or may not believe in.

RADICAL feminism is NOT about being equal. It is ALL about being superior and making men subservient to them.

I think most women are happy to be equal, just like most men are.

It is a small minority of women who want to lead men around on leashes. They know who they are. We know who they are. THESE are the ones we are posting about and are fighting against their agendas.

Tahirih Justice Center is unique among RADICAL feminist groups because unlike the other RADICAL or "normal" feminists, they have a RADICAL religious agenda that drives them. In my eyes this makes them VERY dangerous as they want not only to make men subservient to them, but they also want to change EVERY man, woman and child in the societies around the world to be molded into THEIR vision of RADICAL feminist "harmony."

Tahirih Justice Center probably were going to bitch to get another case going on EC on Christmas Day as I imagine this is just "Monday" to them and they thought Judge Cooper and gang would be working. I wonder which day is special to them? What is Tahirih's birthday?

They are RADICAL feminists and religious EXTREMISTS with a mission and agenda and it is not a pleasant one if you are not "with them." If their religion is as tolerant as their civil actions, I think we know what to expect from them.

They started out saving African women from female genital multulation (a noble deed and intentionally so) to seem like they were on a noble cause. After some power and money, they came up with IMBRA. With yet MORE money and power PLUS a religious agenda......well I have a very vivid imagination so I can only imagine what treats they have in store for the NEAR future if they are not reined in NOW.

Some could never have forseen something as un-American and ridiculous as IMBRA actually passing. Try and use your imagination and see if you can think of things that make IMBRA look like  a harmless little un-noticed (intentionally) law. You KNOW they are not going to stop there. They will NEVER stop unless THEY are stopped. We are not just talking about American men and foreign women. That was only a test of they could get away with! We are talking REAL SERIOUS STUFF here for EVERYBODY, including "normal" feminists!
« Last Edit: December 24, 2006, 09:52:12 AM by Frank Johnson » Logged
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« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2007, 08:21:05 AM »

This entire thread, or at least the link to the PBS "Debate" on IMBRA, should be the first thing people see when they come to ODR, right next to the Donate button. :-)
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« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2007, 05:11:30 AM »

In the first sentence, Bonnie describes IMBRA as providing the US government with the identities of the men who date foreign women.

IS THIS TRUE? Does IMBRA give the US government a way around habeus corpus authorizing and insisting that all business transactions with a website can be investigated in the same way that Muslims can be investigated for what library materials they've taken out?

And the ACLU has NOTHING to say about this? The EFF has NOTHING to say?

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Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2007, 01:27:07 PM »

Here is my email of two weeks ago to the program that broadcast Bonnie Erbe's "debate" and their response.  What is surprising by their response is not that it is inconsequential, but that they addressed me as Mr. Oliver.    

Dear Mr. Oliver,
Thank you for your comments on our webcast.  We always love hearing from our viewers.  Please keep watching and letting us know what you think.
 
To The Contrary

Tristan Laurent <onlinedatingrights@yahoo.com> wrote:
TTC Extra:
 
I viewed a video of your October 20, 2006 production on "Mail Order Brides" with hostess Bonnie Erbe.
 
I was shocked at the blatant sexist, misandrist, racist, xenophobic and ethnocentric attitudes displayed by Ms. Erbe and the guests.
 
Ms. Erbe begins the show by stating that violence in international marriages is up significantly.  The first guest to speak says she is not surprised that there is a spike in violence.  Ms. Erbe and others suggest that anectodal evidence shows this problem is out of control.
 
And then, Ms. Erbe states that SHE HASN'T SEEN ANY STATISTICS ON VIOLENCE IN SUCH RELATIONSHIPS.  Of course, I do not believe this is true.  I believe that Ms. Erbe knows well that statistics, including statistics gathered by the INS, show that violence in such relationships is LOWER than violence in relationships between American men and American women.
 
Other guests stated that such women are subservient, have less education and no career prospects.  There are no statistics showing any of this and in any event these statements are highly disparaging to the foreign women.  But from the tenor and tone of the conversation it is clear that Ms. Erbe and your female guests INTEND to disparage these foreign women as the women on your show believe that such foreign women are inferior to American women.
 
In what is one of the worst examples of a smear, one woman guest implies that meeting a woman on the internet who happens to be from another country may be linked to sex trafficking.  
 
I noted that your To the Contrary series is intended to be about women's issues.  Who would ever have thought that a television production in 2006 hosted by women who consider themselves enlightened would be filled with false facts, innuendo and smears based on race and gender due to complete and utter ignorance.
 
You should visit our website to educate yourselves.  It is online-dating-rights.com.  Then, you should invite two of our men to debate two of your women on this issue.  It would be a great experience for your viewers, but you will never do it because the truth about this issue and about the law is simply unacceptable for your management.
 
Tristan Laurent
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Advocacy groups that get taxpayer money for "protecting" foreign women and the thoughtless media call foreign woman a "mail order bride" if she met her husband via internet.  This is American imperialism, it is denigrating, insulting and portrays the women as helpless fools.
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« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2007, 10:04:28 AM »

For those people who have the forum configured so the last post is the first post they see, here is what the thread is about:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8282596400667044072&q=mail+order+brides&hl=en

You have to have a strong stomach to watch this.
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« Reply #47 on: January 24, 2007, 11:54:10 AM »

Anyone watching this video might be reminded of a pack of wolves panicking that all the rabbits and small game are leaving the forest. thanx aws Cool
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Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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