Online Dating Rights. Mail Order Brides
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FOUR REASONS American men seek romance abroad: Prague, Ha Long Bay, Red Square, small villages in Latin America. Somehow meeting a Czech, Vietnamese, Russian or Peruvian/Colombian/Brazilian woman for a date at one of these exotic places is incomparably more exciting than meeting a hometown girl at the local coffeeshop. Opponents of a man's right to meet foreign women online never stop to consider how enjoyable it is to travel/work/live abroad and learn new cultures and languages while seeking a marriage partner.
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Author Topic: Pbs Television Talk Show "debate" On Imbra: Only Women On Panel  (Read 89140 times)
VeteransAbroad
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« on: December 14, 2006, 10:32:18 AM »

Before you watch this PBS "To The Contrary" video, please make sure that you can keep your food in your stomach.

Remember that our tax money pays for PBS. American men are paying for this kind of "debate":

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8282596400667044072&q=mail+order+brides&hl=en

It is from US News & World Report Editor Bonnie Erbe who has her own blog that we were all involved in in October. But I didn't know this radfem had a job at the most conservative news magazine!  

The "opposing" side in this "debate" is the US Dept of Labor Director of the Twentieth Century Workforce Karen Czarnecki who answers the question "why aren't we stopping this (men dating foreign women)" with "Because its a free country...but"...and then she launches into a big diatribe about how we're looking for 1950s women (as if that would be so bad if it were the case and it isn't) and we don't want "strong" women.

These girls argue like 5 year olds. This video is like watching four 5 year old girls in a sandbox.

And as everyone here knows, I never call adult women "girls". But it is truly like a preschool sandbox.

That is the level of their discussion...except the moderator (who should know better because we all posted and won the debate on her website in October) is saying "why don't we stop this" with the full power of the Congress.

She means "why don't we stop this" above and beyond IMBRA itself.

She wants to ban the dating of foreign women altogether.

And the Republican US Department of Labor government official, Karen Czarnecki, only offered a quick "its a free country" before agreeing with her in principle otherwise.

There was NO DEBATE but it was billed as a debate.

This is America in 2006.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2007, 10:03:18 AM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

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VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2006, 10:48:58 AM »

Karen Czarnecki is a government employee with the US Department of Labor, actually the Director of the Office of the 21st Century Workforce whose boss, the Labor Secretary is Elaine Chao at 202 693-6000. Elaine Chao is an immigrant. Karen wouldn't approve if an American man had married her boss. She'd say Elaine wasn't "strong" like she is.

Karen took my call because she thought this was "an emergency about my German nanny".

So she wouldn't have taken the call otherwise.

Her personal life was more important than the government business of IMBRA.

Karen: Do you know how many American jobs our country's businessmen create by operating overseas?

And she has to go on television and act like a radical feminist from San Francisco calling all American men abusers who don't happen to live in the USA and who might not date American women.

A US Government official...

Anyway, when I tell her about the 1% abuse rate, she says "I don't know about any statistics".

So I say "Then you'll agree its presumptious to go on TV spouting slander about American men when all the evidence says they're among the best citizens."

Then she said "All the literature I've been reading says otherwise".

I said "Yes. The radical feminist literature."

She then said "Listen, I am not going to debate this with you."

And this is the kind of "Republican" George Bush gives jobs to. This is a so-called "strong" woman.

This is our Director of the Office of the 21st Century Workforce at the Department of Labor.

In 2008, there is going to have to be a house cleaning. We can't work with Republicans who "are not going to debate this with you" and who actually haven't been reading any literature at all.

And Karen: Why does a Director in the US Department of Labor feel that American men to have to prove a negative?

We don't have to prove to you that we are not abusive. Get it??

Now don't expect to ever run for a cabinet position in the next government.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 11:45:09 AM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2006, 11:20:37 AM »

Karen: Do you know how many American women are abused by American men every day?

About as many as there are foreign brides abused every 5 years!


So what literature have you been reading? Stories of the rare foreign bride who is abused?

Does someone who works as a Director in the Department of Labor have political ambitions...or is this just someone who hopes to keep her job through successive Republican administrations and then go back to the business world if a Democrat gets elected?

If she is thinking of a career in politics, let other men be warned to save this video and this information on what she said. We've shown that we're an important swing vote. If organized, no Republican could win office without us.

She had a male secretary and it was amusing to hear how obsequious he was. He would be a good boy and not try to date a non-American woman.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 11:25:42 AM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2006, 12:27:53 PM »

By the way, for any married men reading this...or American men who are not now dating foreign women...when women talk on national television like our Director of the Twentieth Century Office at the Dept of Labor...they are talking about YOU.

Her attitude had nothing to do with "mail order brides". In fact, in the conversation with me, she didn't differentiate when I asked her if she thought dating French and German women was wrong.

She said what she said about American men in general.

Rewatch the above video. Karen Czarnecki, a government official whom they try to cover up as a "conservative commentator", is saying how she generally feels about US men.

And George Bush put her in office as a "conservative."

Now another thing that concerns me is that I was clearly the only American male who saw that tragic video above and actually followed up to find out that this "conservative commentator" defaming American men on television was a US Government official.

She was surprised and said the video was shot many months ago...before she turned arrogant and defended her position with the snide comment about "the literature that I've read".

And this was when I was trying to be very friendly with her after she said she didn't know of any statistics (none of the women on the television "debate" knew any statistics - it was an exercise for 5 year olds to discuss their ad populum prejudices).

We need younger guys on payroll who can keep track of the antics of radfems, especially inside the US Government.

Apparently, American men have learned to just take the abuse on the airwaves in stride.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 01:03:13 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2006, 02:00:30 PM »

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]These girls argue like 5 year olds. This video is like watching four 5 year old girls in a sandbox.

And as everyone here knows, I never call adult women "girls". But it is truly like a preschool sandbox.

That is the level of their discussion...except the moderator (who should know better because we all posted and won the debate on her website in October) is saying "why don't we stop this" with the full power of the Congress.

She means "why don't we stop this" above and beyond IMBRA itself.

She wants to ban the dating of foreign women altogether.

And the Republican US Department of Labor government official, Karen Czarnecki, only offered a quick "its a free country" before agreeing with her in principle otherwise.

There was NO DEBATE but it was billed as a debate.

This is America in 2006.
[/quote]
What I find interesting is that the entire panel consisted of women who are opposed to the concept of “mail order brides” at all.  They seem to admit that they believe that these foreign women are using American men to get American citizenship, and to “better themselves”.  This behavior on the part of the foreign women doesn’t seem to bother them.

They view “mail order bride” clients as controlling and domineering.  They don’t provide any evidence for this, except that many of the men do not like American women.  They presume that it is the assertiveness of American women that the men who use international dating agencies do not like.

In many respects, the fact that there aren’t any opposing viewpoints is good, because it allows the American public to see the belief system that is behind the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act.  In addition, they admit that there is only anecdotal evidence for an alleged epidemic of spousal abuse in the “mail order bride” industry.  Look at their body language.  They obviously are offended by the “mail order bride” industry and what they perceive it to represent (e.g. a rejection of American feminism).  These (I presume feminists) have done the public a favor.  

This seems to be their argument:
1)   “Mail order bride” clients are domineering men;
2)   “Mail order brides” are using American men to “better themselves”;
3)   Feminists are indifferent to men being exploited by “mail order brides”;
4)   Feminists would like to eliminate the industry, because they find “mail order bride” clients offensive.
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IMBRA isn't fair:  ?
VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2006, 02:04:37 PM »

I wrote the following letter to the African-American Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes-Norton who was on that tragic video:

Dear Congresswoman Holmes Norton,

I saw you on "To the Contrary" on PBS where you started off defending people who date online but then you said "Now we have some facts".

WHAT FACTS?

When 5000 American women are abused per month, you look at the "fact" that a foreign bride was abused and that becomes a reason for the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act?

There is no fact there. The stats say that we men who date European women are 7 times less likely to abuse our girlfriends and wives. You had no right to vote for IMBRA as it is about to be overturned by a federal court for violating the Constitution in five different ways.

And another thing: How could you sit in that debate with the radical feminist Bonnie Erbe when there was NO MAN there to defend himself in the "debate"?

How could you listen to Bonnie say that "we" should ban online dating altogether if the woman isn't American?

And Karen Czarnick was a Bush administration official in the Dept of Labor? Slandering men the way she did?

And what is this remark about the women being desperate for dating a guy like me?

I am an MBA and I put food on the table of Washington constituents!

Please. Check out www.online-dating-rights.com and be reasonable.

We date educated and beautiful, non-desperate foreign women because they don't sit around in one-side debates gloating about how they've taken over the US media and now occupy positions in the US Dept of Labor...which gives them the right to bash men unopposed.
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« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2006, 02:38:28 PM »

Actually, to come to think of it...

I am not really cool that this person is the Director of the 21st Century Workforce for the US Department of Labor.

How can we remove her from office? We have the video tape.

Let's not let this go. At least not completely. It is major ammunition that we have a US Government official engaged in such a childish one sided debate where she slanders an important American minority: white businessmen.

Someone should give this a run for the money. We have to stop future government officials from thinking its OK to slander males so cavalierly on national television.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 02:40:03 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2006, 04:08:44 PM »

This is getting worse...more depressing...

Michelle Bernard of the "Independent Women's Forum" is clearly a radical feminist from the literature about her...but she is of Iraqi origin and is in tight with the Bush Administration as a major supporter of the Iraq War:http://www.iwf.org/experts/ex_bernard.asp

This is getting disgusting. You remember what she said on the video: "This frightens me....sexual trafficking and the potential for a lot of women to get hurt". Never has any American dating site been accused of sexual trafficking. Unbelievable.

No wonder I was delted from FreeRepublic.com. They've got the entire friggin Republican Party wrapped around their fingers.

Here is more of the bio:

Presently, Bernard is leading IWF's Iraqi women's democracy initiative and is the program officer of the Iraqi Women's Educational Institute (IWEI). IWEI is a joint project of IWF, the American Islamic Congress, and the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies. Since joining IWF, Bernard has worked with the Women's Alliance for a Democratic Iraq, delegations of Iraqi women activists, and others to promote the full economic, social and political participation of Iraqi women as Iraq moves towards its January 2005 elections.  Bernard has been a driving force in promoting the human rights of women, ethnic and religious minorities. She has assisted in the development and implementation of training programs on the pillars of democracy, women's rights and religious freedom, political activism in a democracy, issues of governance, free markets and micro-enterprise. Additionally, Bernard has assisted in the development and implementation of briefings for Iraqi women on the Economic Index of Freedom, literacy, and polling.

Maybe the Iraqi insurgents are seeing something that they really don't like going on in Iraqi society now that women like this are part of the occupiers.

Keep in mind that I am saying this as a major supporter of Operation Iraqi Freedom...until now that I am beginning to wonder...

Oh my God...this woman is best friends with Condi Rice!


The investigation of what I thought was a bunch of sad and lonely kaffeeklatch losers turns out that two of them are very powerful in the Bush Administration.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 04:14:57 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2006, 08:32:08 PM »

I sent the following message to TTC Extra, the name of the show that broadcast this program via PBS.  

TTContrary@yahoo.com

TTC Extra:

I viewed a video of your October 20, 2006 production on "Mail Order Brides" with hostess Bonnie Erbe.

I was shocked at the blatant sexist, misandrist, racist, xenophobic and ethnocentric attitudes displayed by Ms. Erbe and the guests.

Ms. Erbe begins the show by stating that violence in international marriages is up significantly.  The first guest to speak says she is not surprised that there is a spike in violence.  Ms. Erbe and others suggest that anectodal evidence shows this problem is out of control.

And then, Ms. Erbe states that SHE HASN'T SEEN ANY STATISTICS ON VIOLENCE IN SUCH RELATIONSHIPS.  Of course, I do not believe this is true.  I believe that Ms. Erbe knows well that statistics, including statistics gathered by the INS, show that violence in such relationships is LOWER than violence in relationships between American men and American women.

Other guests stated that such women are subservient, have less education and no career prospects.  There are no statistics showing any of this and in any event these statements are highly disparaging to the foreign women.  But from the tenor and tone of the conversation it is clear that Ms. Erbe and your female guests INTEND to disparage these foreign women as the women on your show believe that such foreign women are inferior to American women.

In what is one of the worst examples of a smear, one woman guest implies that meeting a woman on the internet who happens to be from another country may be linked to sex trafficking.  

I noted that your To the Contrary series is intended to be about women's issues.  Who would ever have thought that a television production in 2006 hosted by women who consider themselves enlightened would be filled with false facts, innuendo and smears based on race and gender due to complete and utter ignorance.

You should visit our website to educate yourselves.  It is online-dating-rights.org.  Then, you should invite two of our men to debate two of your women on this issue.  It would be a great experience for your viewers, but you will never do it because the truth about this issue and about the law is simply unacceptable for your management.

Tristan Laurent   (more below)

Then, I sent a copy of the email to the following organizations that were listed as program sponsors.  These are all foundations that are surely strong supporters of women's issues.  It is likely that they are blind to the blatant hatred espoused on their sponsored shows and might be able to see a dull light after hearing from us.  I encourage all of you to write to TTC or any of these sponsors.

Marguerite Casey Foundation
Rhodes and Leona B. Carpenter Foundation (cant find address)
Jacob & Valeria Langeloth Foundation
Peter J. Sharp Foundation
Wallace Genetic Foundation
Annie E. Casey Foundation
Charles A. Frueauff Foundation  (had to write snailmail letter)
Henry H. Kessler Foundation
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Advocacy groups that get taxpayer money for "protecting" foreign women and the thoughtless media call foreign woman a "mail order bride" if she met her husband via internet.  This is American imperialism, it is denigrating, insulting and portrays the women as helpless fools.
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2006, 09:59:11 PM »

Aint she somethin'


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