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Author Topic: Imbra Causes Death Of Woman In India  (Read 58811 times)
tristan
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« on: January 02, 2007, 05:49:27 PM »

To readers of this topic,
I received this email today from an email address in India.  Also here is my response to the email.
Tristan


suraj Here < wrote:
Hello,
 
I am writing to let you know about the terrible effect the IMBRA law has had on my family.    My sisters were raped when she was just 17 years old. In my country a women who has a client has absolutely no chance of ever getting married. Especially if she has a daughter. In our village a family must pay a very large dowry to the man to marry a women, usually about 10 years salary. So my sister hand no hope of ever getting married.
Then she met a man Mr. Habi,  He open an agency for women in my country.  He provide a safe place for women to came and meet foreign men, He also provided free Internet and English classes to all women in the village.  My sister was communicating with 16 men she was very interested in, She was so happy that there was hope for her and her daughter.   Mr. Habi  required all men to come to his office to meet the women and he would personally do back ground on them.   But on June 1st  he sad he could no longer operate because IMBRA.  IMBRA  made it illegal for him to let women  chat online with US citizen. Even thought this was a small part if his business he could not separate US and Non US citizens from his dating site service.   Mr. Habi being a US citizen himself could not take the risk of imprisonment for letter women commutate with US citizens thus closed his doors.  My sister was devastated, she had no hope at all.  In a desperate attempt to find some one she would take the little money she had and would pay for 30 minutes on the Internet at a café each week. This was all she could afford.  She places an ad on yahoo personals.   She had a response from a man from an near by  city that promised her many things.   Unlike Mr. Habi agency she had no safe place to meet this man.  He arranged to pick her up by car, that was the last time she was seen alive.   She was found a week later, raped, tortured and murdered.   This US IMBRA was directly responsible for my sister’s death.
 
Suraj

Suraj,
 
What a horrible story you have told me.  Please accept my condolences for your sister's death  I see from your email address that it ends in .in, which means you are from India.
 
I intend to use this information to help repeal IMBRA.  I will post your letter on my website (but I will delete your email address to protect your privacy).  Naturally I understand the reason you may not wish to be identified, but I must ask you this: are you willing to be identified in the hopes that your story will have more weight and more power to help us repeal this law?  If we can authenticate a story such as the one you have told me, we can submit it to Congress and we can help our lawmakers know how this law is harming foreign women.  At this time they are completely ignorant of how this law works.  None of the members of our Parliament actually voted for this law and no debate was held on it, their votes were automatically recorded because the party leaders organized it.  They NEED to know your story.
 
I know that this is of no consequence to you personally and it will not affect the tragic loss you have suffered, but it may help many other young women like your sister if we can get rid of this terrible law.  
 
If you or any other member of your family is willing to identify yourselves, please email me again and tell me your telephone number, your location in India and when I should call.  I will call you personally.
 
Tristan Laurent
« Last Edit: January 02, 2007, 05:50:36 PM by Tristan Laurent » Logged

Advocacy groups that get taxpayer money for "protecting" foreign women and the thoughtless media call foreign woman a "mail order bride" if she met her husband via internet.  This is American imperialism, it is denigrating, insulting and portrays the women as helpless fools.
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« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2007, 12:23:22 PM »

This is indeed sad.  And something that they just can not understand, most of the small mom and pop outfits actually do care and try to protect their ladies.  They do establish secure meeting sites were the lady is not alone and can leave at any time.  But as everyone knows, this has nothing to do with protection, and everything to do with banning them from the US.
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VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2007, 01:38:33 PM »

I only deal now with non-American websites that give me the home address of the foreign woman, which is what is needed for telegrams or just showing up...which is the only way to meet some women when your plane is leaving in 4 hours and the one you just met is not someone you are going to be in love with.

One thing that IMBRA does not accomodate is that a man will not be inclined to make plans with more than one woman in advance of a trip overseas if he thinks the first woman is going to be OK for him.

But, all too often the woman he has been corresponding with and making plans for...does not look like her photo and/or is otherwise not someone he is satisfied with, so he needs, with 4 hours to go in that country, to meet someone else from a website whom he has not yet been communicating with.

Since foreign women tend to check their emails once every 2 weeks, email is not an option even if it did NOT involve the time-consuming electronic signature nonsense of IMBRA that can add 2 extra weeks to the meeting process.

That leaves sending a telegram to the home address with the request that she call you as quickly as possible, or ringing the doorbell and meeting with the parents and explaining that you are only in the country another few hours and had no choice but to ring.

I have done the latter about 4 times in my life in the east and it was always a smart move that made me better friends with the entire family.

I did that twice in the west. Once, about 4 years ago, a Swiss woman gave me her address because she didn't yet have a phone in her new apartment. I showed up and she gave me her phone number a few days later.

The other time I did that in the west was not a good idea because the western parents were indoctrinated with the paranoid western ideology.

In the USA, doing that would probably lead to being shot or arrested because of the extreme hatred of single males in that country.

-----------------------------

At ODR, we paper over the differences between guys who really do get emotionally involved with a woman via email over months...and men who intend to meet 5 or 6 women on a visit. The latter, IMHO, usually do better in finding the right woman and it is the latter who are most damaged by IMBRA because they are actually quite likely to need to meet someone new on very short notice.

We do ourselves a disservice when we give the impression that men who date foreign women tend to travel overseas to just meet one woman with whom there should be plenty of time for her to sign the IMBRA form.

The reality of these foreign penpal services is that the first woman a man meets is often not the woman of his dreams no matter how long he had been corresponding with her. He then needs to start communicating with another woman immediately and meet her immediately before he flies 10,000 miles away.

IMBRA prevents that and levels the playing field of competition for western women who are mostly unavailable for men to meet on the same day a man writes.

Try this yourselves with Match.com if you go on a business trip to Denver or Atlanta. Write letters to local American women on Match.com saying that you are staying at the local Hilton or Sheraton Hotel and would like for them to go out with you to a nice restaurant or meet quickly.

Sadly, you will find that 0% will even answer and they will never want to know you for having even dared to ask.

This is the total opposite of behavior of women in Eastern Europe, who would go out of their way to meet a man who is only in town for the next 24 hours.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2007, 01:55:09 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2007, 02:00:22 PM »

I have always said here that the best way for an American or Canadian man to know if he should emigrate is to conduct the following test:

Wake up on a Saturday and decide that, if you do not have the telephone number of a great woman by Sunday at sunset...move.

An Email address does not count.

It should be easily doable to meet someone great during one weekend who gives you her home phone number or cell number.
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Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2007, 11:24:22 AM »

[!--quoteo--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--quotec--]IMBRA made it illegal for him to let women chat online with US citizen. Even thought this was a small part if his business he could not separate US and Non US citizens from his dating site service. Mr. Habi being a US citizen himself could not take the risk of imprisonment for letter women commutate with US citizens thus closed his doors. My sister was devastated, she had no hope at all. In a desperate attempt to find some one she would take the little money she had and would pay for 30 minutes on the Internet at a café each week. This was all she could afford. She places an ad on yahoo personals. She had a response from a man from an near by city that promised her many things. Unlike Mr. Habi agency she had no safe place to meet this man. He arranged to pick her up by car, that was the last time she was seen alive. She was found a week later, raped, tortured and murdered. This US IMBRA was directly responsible for my sister’s death.[/quote]

In early March 2006  I visited the United States Capitol - Rayburn House Office Building in Washington DC.  The Rayburn Office contains the legislative offices of our United States Legislators - those individuals directly involved with voting for or against laws created by our government - the United States of America.

  My visit was precipated by my desire to notify our US Congressmen the political corruption correlated with the passage of the International Marriage Broker Regulation Act of 2005 that the legislators had passed 4 months prior with an undemocratic and unrecorded voice vote.

 A total of 89 Congressional offices were visited and the visit involved verbal discussions with at least one staff memeber from each office.  In addition each office was given a written overview of the law (IMBRA 2005).  I  stressed the fact that the sponsors of the IMBRA were more interested in targeting small foreign matchmaking firms than protecting women. "Lobbyists for the Big Internet dating mega- sites succeeded the sponsors (supporters) of the new mail order bride law to carve out an exemption  for them over the smaller online dating international dating services".  I went on to state the following key sentence:

[size=]"Just remember the first women who becomes a victim of domestic violence from one of those "exempt" sites and gets killed of badly injured law makers who voted forIMBRA will be held accountable."[/size]

Apparently the law makers who voted for the law never read the law as evidenced by the fact that only 2 individuals had any knowledge that the United Government had passed such a draconian law, IMBRA 2005. Ignorance of the law is no excuse even for law makers who failed to read IMBRA when they voted. Many of our legislators appeared to be embarrassed and very concerned once I brought this scandal to their attention.

My visit in March 2006 was approximately 7 months prior to the November elections and it was generally felt that  the subject of IMBRA and the corruption that I had been suddenly exposed should be concealed from the public and media..  I received absolutely no follow up response or inquiry from any of the 89 Congressional offices. Obviously they (legislators) were concerned about getting elected.

In August of 2005  there was a glimmer of hope when Mathew Hubacher, a legislative assistant with Congresmen Tom Latham (Iowa-4th district) suggested his desire to consider introducing legislation to repeal IMBRA.  Hubacher had incinuated his desire to work with Monica Delong a legislative assistant with Maryland's 6 th Congressional district.  (Apparently Mathew had worked with Monica on other projects). However Monica and/ or another Legislation assistant  (Maryland) derailed the plan by convincing Mr. Hubacher NOT to pursue the idea of a repeal... an obvious disappiontment to myself.

Sadly our United States Legislators were more interested in getting elected than repealing IMBRA, a law that increases violence against women keeping them in foreign countries where women are treated like chattel and violence against women is condoned.  [size=]The mere fact that a women from India (or elsewhere) gets murdered because of IMBRA is no consequence to our legislators who quite frankly (and in my honest  opinion) could care less...[/size]IMBRA hurts foreign women keeping them in countries where women are treated like chattel with no laws against domestic violence and hurts American men severely limiting an American  man's legal pursuit to marry and correspond with a person of our choosing without undue government interference.
 So the real winner here are The Non Government Oganizations  (NGO's) (IMBRA proponents) who rely on Federal funding/ grants for their existence. Although these NGO's are supposedly charity organizations the top executives get paid a handsome salary and those executives often have political aspirations.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2007, 11:26:32 AM by roots » Logged
VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2007, 05:08:02 AM »

I am sure that many American women were killed in the past year as a result of using domestic dating services.

But we are not organized enough to keep track and there is no part of the website chronicling this because nobody is working full time.

In contrast, there are armies working full-time for the enemy and they are just waiting for the 4th foreign woman to be killed in 16 years after marrying a man they met on an international dating service.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2007, 05:09:04 AM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2007, 10:57:35 AM »

" foreign woman to be killed in 16 years after marrying a man"

Try 30+ years. That is the accurate figure and we are talking probably hundreds of 1,000s of marriages during that time. HARDLY the "epidemic" the radical feminist groups would have everyone believe with their BS "facts and stats."

Granted 3 deaths is sad, but talk about making a mountain out of a molehill........not to mention IMBRA would NOT have prevented even ONE of those deaths!

Perhaps we should ban all men from driving cars because one drove over his wife while we're at it!
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« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 12:23:19 PM »

Has anybody here actually read the bill?  It makes very interesting reading:

http://www.theorator.com/bills109/hr3657.html

Here are a few points from it (quotes are in italics):

-----

(5) Aliens seeking to enter the United States to marry citizens of the United States currently lack the ability to access and fully verify personal history information about their prospective American spouses.

Is this morally right?  Women from poor countries go to America with very little knowledge about their prosepctive spouses.  They are taking great risks.  They could go be going to visit a rapist. They could be going to visit a murderer.  Should there be no protection for them?

-----

(2) The 1999 INS (Immigration and Naturalization Service) report notes that `The pervasiveness of domestic violence in our society has already been documented, and with the burgeoning number of unregulated international matchmaking organizations and clients using their services, the potential for abuse in mail-order marriages is considerable.

Is it wrong to want to protect foreign women from abuse by American spouses?

-----

(3) The dangers posed to foreign women who meet their American husbands through international marriage brokers are underscored by the growing number of cases across the United States of foreign women who have been abused or killed by those men.

OK, so a woman in India died because she went to visit a local man without the protection of a friend.  (She was foolish.)  But would she have been better off if she went to America and was killed by a man there, with no possibility of finding protection there?

-----

Please people.... be sensible and not foolish about this issue!
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 12:30:28 PM »

We are talking about IMBRA's bizarre demand for background checks for people saying hello to each other JoJo. 99% of these people never get married.

Please read the law at www.veteransabroad.com/IMBRA2005.pdf

This interference with people who are just saying hello and who will likely never meet each other and probably never marry...that will soon be struck down in court.

Foreign women who do not know about how to check on anyone can be given the option at the visa process to have a background check done free of charge by the US government. But there are many reasons why this should not be a legal requirement. For instance, the US government is now hassling everybody who wants to marry a foreigner with long delays meant to discourage foreign marriages more than protect anyone.

Go to www.VisaJourney.com to inquire about this.

Is this Susie Hodges by any chance?

« Last Edit: February 05, 2007, 12:34:08 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 01:16:46 PM »

JoJo,

Please verify that you are, at least, horrified that Bush signed a law that prevents people from saying "hello" when there is a 99% chance they will never marry and a 90% chance they will never meet.

Only one person in the 12 months of Online-Dating-Rights has been in favor of keeping the law as it is.

Many people here would agree that background checks are OK at the marriage visa processing level, especially as this applies to all marriages to foreigners only a small part of which are Internet or dating agency related (most people meet their partner in person when traveling or working in other countries).

We will never accept worse treatment and higher scrutiny for just those marriages that were dating site related per se...although it would be perfectly OK to give higher scrutiny to those who marry quickly after only getting to know each other on the Internet.

There is a difference there and I hope you see it: If I met my girlfriend two years ago on a dating site and then lived with her the past two years or spent more than 300 days with her, then I must be treated the same as anyone else who knew their fiance two years and spent 300+ days together.

Conversely, if a man writes to a woman online for a month and then flies to Manila, spends three days with a woman, and then applies for a visa...he should be scrutinized carefully along with the American woman who meets a guy in Paris for three days and then applies for a visa for him.

But background checks cannot be an actual legal requirement for several reasons, including the fact that the background checks are taking just too long right now. Very few people are happy with this.

Go to www.visajourney.com to see how people are suffering extreme invasions of privacy with this IMBRA nonsense. If you could have been against the German Nazis in the 1930s, you will not like the details of what you will see innocent people going through these days.

Remember, these suffering visa applicants are 95% not people who met on the Internet.

If they are going to do such extensive checks at the visa level, it should only be for people who have spent less than 2 weeks in each other's company.
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Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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