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Author Topic: female harrasment of males on internet  (Read 5535 times)
sig44
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« on: February 11, 2007, 07:23:07 AM »

http://www.hollabacknyc.blogspot.com. hope it works
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Sluggo
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2007, 08:49:06 AM »

The blog posting you cited is about a young women walking home from a restaurant with a friend when a man, perhaps drunk, bothered them by trying to start a conversation and persisting even after they responded curtly.  The woman framed the incident of one of personal safety - even though the man didn't threaten the women the blog poster said he could have threatened them.  She suggested that women in similar situations use their cell phones to film the man and then post it on the internet to ridicule him.

It is an interesting blog posting as it illustrates how paranoid women have become.  Even a boorish yet non-threatening man becomes threatening.   Women see no reason not to invade a man's privacy throughout the entire world because he invaded their privacy for a few moments on a sidewalk in what was essentially a private exchange.  It's like using a nuke when a person throws a stone at you.

And it also reinforces the message that many of us already know: it is basically unacceptable to communicate with American women in public.  Granted, this guy may have been drunk and after the first curt response to his questions by one of the women he should have backed off, but how many of us have tried, when completely sober, to engage women in conversation in a place where conversation is expected, like a bar, only to be greeted with disdain or disrespect.  Okay, I always understood when I was single that I don't look like Daniel Craig, but I also came to understand that for that reason, women in a bar wouldn't usually respond favorable to my attempts to initiate conversation.  For them, everything must be perfect (or must be perceived to be perfect) or they will not waste time with you.  For them, there is no social obligation to make polite conversation in a place where strangers go to meet, and now from this blog it appears that there is no social obligation to refrain from invading a man's privacy.

Maybe this blog poster would only film and post online a drunk man who bothers her in the street, but some firebrands reading her words will go further and film and post sober men in a bar who try to make conversation with them if the men are not so good looking or if they come on too strongly (threatening the women's personal safety, as the harmless drunk was claimed to have done).
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VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2007, 01:48:44 PM »

American women reading this: You should seek out the kind of American man who dates foreign women because we would never in a million years catcall women on the street or grope them.

The reason is clear: we know we have a chance because we have either been successful overseas or at home and most often both. The losers who catcall or grope are the kind of guy who clearly figures he does not have a chance with any woman and thus hates them...just like the 40-something radical feminist women who hate men who don't want them and are thus trying to use laws like IMBRA to stop American men from dating foreign women.

The Hollaback blog seems to feature only really nasty American men trying to talk to American women.

Daniel Craig, before Casino Royale, was a skinny 5'10 actor whom women in American would not have paid any attention to. He buffed up for the film and now he has major recognition points.

I have found that it helps to be mistaken for a film star, which Europeans and Russians tend to do with me. The problem is, Americans never mistook me for a film star except for a few years when I looked like Freddy Kruger...which did not help much in getting a date.

Anyway, although the blog mentions some really inexcusable behavior on the part of some trashed American guys trying to meet American women (where is the background check on these guys instead of the one IMBRA imposes on the polite upper middle class men who meet foreign women - who would never make catcalls), Sluggo makes an excellent point that the social scene in the US can get really ugly if women start photo blogging with "this person is, IMHO, a jerk. I think I will take a picture of him and post it on the Internet". It will help enforce political correctness. To politically correct people, a politically incorrect white male is a jerk, no matter how funny and intelligent and good looking he is. He only needs to mention the word feminist in the pejorative to achieve jerk status for instance.

Correction: I just noticed that this is already happening! Apparently there are a lot of American women blogging like this.

That being said, I did not see a case on Hollaback where the man was anywhere near innocent.

I find catcalling women or feeling them up in public to be inexcusable and it can get you dead very fast in Russia or other countries, so message to abusive men: do not even think of finding a wife overseas. If a foreign woman has brothers or a cop for a father, you may not live to get married.

Reading the newspaper accounts, apparently most of the places where the men are catcalling women are ethic neighborhoods like Jamaica Bay in Boston and Oakland, California.

In other words, this is another example of an ethnic problem being made to seem like American men in general tend to catcall and grope women on the street.

Here is a quote from the San Francisco Chronicle:

Quote
The law is on the woman's side, at least in the office, said San Francisco attorney Philip Kay, who specializes in sexual harassment and employment law.

"What's considered an offensive comment in the workplace is defined by the person on the receiving end, not the person who said it," he said. "There are no similar laws about the streets outdoors, but that's an interesting new area."


It would take a greedy lawyer to make that last line. Like I said, the USA's 4th branch of government is the Bar Association.

This is from the Boston Globe

Quote
Asked about the possibility that some of the photos and stories that make it online might level unjust accusations, she says, ``We are more concerned about the thousands of women that get harassed every day."

Legally, accosting or annoying someone of the opposite sex could get the offender up to six months of jail time or $200 in fines, according to Chapter 272, section 53 of Massachusetts General Law.

Notice the "we are more concerned about innocent women" than about innocent men.

With the exception of the foreign exchange students, my experience as a gentleman who just wanted to say hello to some women on the streets of Boston was that the American-born women of Boston are the rudest on the planet. It is no surprise that they got a law passed saying men cannot talk to them. I think it all started with the Boston Strangler in the 1960s. The society never recovered from the paranoia. But Boston is a great place to meet foreign exchange students.

Why isn't there an article about extraordinarily rude Boston women who won't let any gentleman talk to them in public?

I am talking about women who have taken a Womyns Studies course in college because, when I lived in Boston the one American woman who asked me out on a date after meeting me in public was an 18 year old who had not yet been indoctrinated in college.

Of all the places I have even been in this world, Boston is the most anti-male environment I ever witnessed (except for the foreign exchange students and 18 year olds who haven't yet taken their first "Womyns Studies Course" in college). For every case of bad guys actually harrassing a Boston woman (most of the cases occuring in poor ethnic neighborhoods) there are probably 100 cases of nice guys simply wanting to say hello and chat with someone, which the men might be used to being successful at doing in other parts of the country and the world.

Stephanie Conduff can be reached at sconduff at globe.com. Here is some more of what she wrote:

Quote
Women can seek legal protection in work and academic environments, but harassment on the street or public transportation is a new frontier, says Nan Stein , a senior research scientist at the Wellesley Centers for Women at Wellesley College. She says she developed the first curriculum on sexual harassment in schools in 1979 for the Massachusetts Department of Education.
Click the play button below to hear Maanav Thakore, a community organizer in Jamaica Plain, talk about street harassment in Boston.

``I think if it is public transportation . . . then there is a responsibility of both federal and city governments to make you safe," the Cambridge resident says. In Stein's opinion, just saying ``hey baby" -- on the T or on the street -- shouldn't be against the law.

``I don't want speech like that criminalized," she says. ``You are going to run into the First Amendment," which is part of a constant tension in harassment cases .

That lack of clearly defined and established legal guidelines to make the streets safe from harassment is part of what prompts groups ardent about the issue to turn to like-minded souls for help.

When a number of Boston-area women met in Cambridge last month to discuss their personal struggle with lewd shouts and other assaults on their dignity, five members of the National Organization for Men Against Sexism, Boston chapter, were there.

The pro feminist, gay-affirmative, and anti racist group joined the women, forming a circle at the Democracy Center on Mt. Auburn Street to trade ideas and stories and engage in role-playing.

They took their dialogue out to a corner of Harvard Square. There they used construction cones to wrap the sort of yellow tape all too familiar from crime scenes -- but covered with handwritten slogans. ``Don't ask me to smile," said one. ``Street harassment must end," proclaimed another, and then: ``Warning: street harassment will not be tolerated -- violators will be photographed."

The square is symbolic of public places where harassment frequently occurs, says Matt Meyer , a member of the men's group. A display like theirs is one way to bring awareness to the problem, he says.

Scott Pherson , a cofounder of the group, says he left the event with a sense of satisfaction that more people are sharing in his outrage about harassment. He says he has confronted men on T platforms and asked them to stop harassing women.

``I get annoyed and I get upset," he says, ``when I see it happening."

Any red-blooded heterosexual alpha-male would stop another man from harrassing a woman in public, but this journalist wants to make it seem that only gay American males would do that. The journalist calls this men's group "gay friendly", which means "consisting of gay men" in newspeak.

Here is an interesting website:

http://www.harassment101.com/
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 03:47:59 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2007, 03:31:33 PM »

3. Hero harasser

AKA: Confidant or Gentleman
Identification: Hard
Location: Any location
Harassment Situations. Any situation

This harasser is one of the sleaziest kinds. They separate themselves from the other harassers. They don't act like the other harassers. They might even at times step in and boldly and chivalrously ask the other harassers to temporarily cease and desist with the torment. This harasser wants to be your friend, your confidant, a true hero. This harasser at heart is just like the others except worst, because they pretend to be your friend.

This harasser is most often found in sexual harassment situations, but can be found in other situations. They will befriend the victim, gain their trust, and maybe even offer protection from the harassment. This type of hero harasser will then try to procure sexual favors as a reword for their good deeds, or for being your friend and confidant. Because this harasser seems so different and so trustworthy it's often a confusing time for the victim.

Harassment is one of the hardest situations to deal with. When this harasser comes along the victim thinks they have finally found someone who they can trust, a friend they can talk to, someone they can rely on. This wolf in sheep's clothing however has only one goal, and that is to find out personal information and vulnerabilities of the victim, so they can make their move.

This type of harasser often sees themselves as different than the other harassers, they don't see themselves as the same thing. They try to convince themselves that they are better or different than the others, and then they don't understand why you want nothing to do with them after they have made their harassment move. They will often after come around asking if something is wrong? Did they do something to offed you,? Are you alright? Knowing full well what they have done, or attempted and the reasons you are not speaking to them.

This type of harasser will often feign shock or outrage at your accusation. This type of harasser also probably spends a great deal of time procuring their hero or gentleman image for the crowd, and they may try to discredit your accusation, or make it seem like you don't know what you are talking about, or imply that you are lying. If unable to pull of the aforementioned scenario they may imply or state that you initiated the moves and you were a willing participant in the words, behaviours, or actions they tried to perpetrate.

I will give the author the benefit of the doubt here, but what she could be saying is "Don't think you can rescue a damsel in distress and expect her to be interested in you either."   Cool
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 04:01:50 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
VeteransAbroad
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2007, 03:35:47 PM »

AKA: Pests
Identification: Hard
Location: Anywhere
Harassment Situations. Any situation

This type of harasser would not hurt a fly, that is as long as no one is looking. They are just as aggressive as aggressors, however they are 10 times better at hiding it. The Mr and Mrs nice guys and girls of the office or the school. They are on surface pleasant, easy to get along with, friendly, and yet under this exterior they are all about having their own way. They like to have their own way, and when they can't get it, they will become annoying or aggressive. Eg. The guy at the office who asks the girl out, she says no, but in his own sweet little none aggressive way, he asks her out again, and again, each time in a more persistent manner, but it's all done under the guise of being Mr nice guy. The harassment is hardly if at all ever seen as harassment, because they are the nicest person and they would not hurt a fly.

This person will often have someone do their dirty work, or try to use social or peer pressure with the help of others to get their own way. The harasser will use sympathetic friends and acquaintances. They will plead their case and their cause, trying to make their actions seem justified and harmless. This type is dangerous, simply because they are hard to spot and even harder to show as the harassers that they are.

This harasser wants to be made to feel special and important, cared for. The moment this harasser is confronted about their action or publicly called to task they will usually back off going into passive mode, hurt by the unfair accusation, because we all know this harasser would never hurt a fly.

---------------------------------------------

Again, I will give the author the benefit of the doubt in that she could be describing a particularly annoying type of guy she has experienced who simply won't get the message that she is not interested. However, she could easily be teaching some young women who read this to refuse going out for lunch, coffee or drinks with casual acquaintances and coworkers who really mean nothing sexual about their continued attempts to break the ice she may have formed around her.

Another perception I got from reading the literature online, is that the women who are most annoyed at what they perceive as harrassment are about 22 years old and make comments that make it very clear that they do not understand that they will likely not have the problem 5-10 years from now.

Feminism's worst teaching to young women is that they will be physically desired by those evil men forever.

From reading this, one gets the impression that a coworker's wanting to grab a sandwich together might be considered harrassment.

I have only heard about all this from afar. I wouldn't know because I have barely spent much time living in the USA. My experience in the work place was the opposite: I had the chance to fool around but I decided to back off because I was afraid that the woman could later make a charge against me if I did not want to continue the relationship. America's reputation caused me to avoid hanky panky with an employee who wanted me to be her boyfriend.

Thank God most of this literature is not printed in other languages.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 04:13:33 PM by VeteransAbroad » Logged

Honest journalists will see the Tahirih Justice Center as a front for the NOW that appeals to conservative "Security Moms". Match.com and Yahoo and MySpace are actually working for total Internet regulation because they don't want clients to be anonymous and they want small dating sites/forums dead.
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